Sinatra / Reprise Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Sinatra and Swingin' Brass" - 1962*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SinatraFan, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    ...and your rubber ducky is splattered on the floor.
     
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  2. Ronald Sarbo

    Ronald Sarbo Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    Arnold Shaw who wrote one of the first bios of Sinatra attended the recording sessions. Shaw recalled that Sinatra was in great voice and highly energized.

    Frank Sinatra Jr. has a great fondness for the Hefti arrangements. When he conducted for his father he often used them instead of the Riddle charts for the songs FS re-recorded. This album was also intended as the prelude to the Basie collaboration.
     
  3. colormesinatra

    colormesinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malverne, NY
    Alright, I just got home with this new LP in hand. I'm currently half way through the first half of the first side. I've been enjoying the Hi-res download for these past few weeks but this is LP sounds heavenly to my ears. Stereo separation is very nice. The vinyl is clean and quiet. Frank's vocal tone is strong and clear. The instruments, more specifically, the muted trumpet and sax solos have great clarity and the drums come through quite solidly. The bass does seem goosed as some have mentioned because as I started to turn the volume all the way up my speakers began to rumble which never happens with my system. Now onto Side 2.
     
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  4. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Has anyone noted how odd it is to have "Goody Goody" and "Don'Cha Go 'Way Mad" on the same side and on the same album? They're lyrical opposites.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    RE: Stereo separation on the 2014 LP

    The bass on the LP is (artificially) centered, while on the new HD version (and every prior stereo version) it is at the left, which is where it belongs, as it shares a track with the saxophones. The fact that it's moved does not mean that it can't sound good, but it does indicate that there is some additional processing on the LP that is not on the HD version, and that the overall stereo effect is less wide on the LP than on the HD version.
     
  6. colormesinatra

    colormesinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malverne, NY
    I didn't notice the bass being centered but maybe the drums aren't as far to the right at they should be? I don't know.
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

     
  8. Arkoffs

    Arkoffs Northside bulldog

    Location:
    Arkham Asylum
    Just took a spin through the new LP on the turntable.

    Futzed-with mix or not, I think it sounds pretty darn good, considering the Putnamization of the tapes. A heck of a lot more clarity than on my old mono copy, at least (turns out I ditched the stereo as sounding worse than the mono some time back).
     
  9. colormesinatra

    colormesinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malverne, NY
    Putnam sounds like the predecessor to Norberg...
     
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  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    The clarity thing is really a nice change of pace for this album, yup. I'll take the HD over the LP only because the LP is narrowed somewhat, but boy....those old mixes are SO BAD it's almost laughable. Oh, heck, they ARE laughable, especially the old mono mix.
     
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  11. DavidFell

    DavidFell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I've read that bass doesn't cut well if it's not centered, when mastering an LP, and that it's not uncommon for mastering engineers to move bass frequencies there. I wish we knew a mastering engineer who could comment. :shh:
     
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  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    That may be, but it's been centered on every cut since 1962, so the sudden need to shift seems a bit untrue to form.
     
  13. Zomvid

    Zomvid Delicate Genius

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Is there a list of recommended Sinatra reissues on LP? So far I've heard good things about In the Wee Small Hours, this one, what else??
     
  14. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    The former is the most inane song FS recorded.
     
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  15. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    "Goody, Goody" was a hit for Helen Ward with the Benny Goodman orchestra in 1936, and it obviously held sentimental value for Sinatra. Certainly not more inane than a certain "dog" of a song?
     
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  16. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Yeah, or "Feet of Clay". The album version is just OK, but in live performances Frank infused a lot of 'You'll Get Yours' attitude into the song, making it better than it could seemingly be.
     
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  17. Bob Belvedere

    Bob Belvedere Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    It's not such a bad song. Nothing Johnny Mercer wrote could ever be labeled 'bad'. Mediocre, perhaps, but never was there a bad Mercer lyric.
     
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  18. bozburn

    bozburn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rome, GA, US
    Regardless of the quality of matched song and lyric, you can sense Frank was having fun with it.
     
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  19. marmil

    marmil It's such a long story...

    How's the SQ on the recent vinyl issue of Sinatra & Swingin' Brass?
     
  20. colormesinatra

    colormesinatra Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malverne, NY
    Its nice but the HD download blows it away. The channel separation is greater on the HD download.
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Yup.

    On the HD, the original 3 tracks are remixed to stereo with the 3 tracks un-altered in terms of positioning, i.e., all the instruments (including the bass) that were on track one are on the left; the vocal is in the center; the instruments from track 3 are on the right. On the new LP, the bass is wholly moved to the center, either through very aggressive "low frequency blend" during lacquer cutting (i.e., everything under, say, 300 Hz is summed to mono, effectively moving it to the center, to aid with trackability, although it seems to be severely overdone here), or via some sort of digital trickery. Regardless, the HD is more "true" to the original in terms of the placement and spread of the instruments, yes.

    I'm not saying the LP is bad, but the two versions are markedly different.
     
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  22. marmil

    marmil It's such a long story...

    I just got the new LP of ...Swingin' Brass and I think, barring some sibilance on the vocals, that it sounds just fine - on its own and compared to an orig. stereo LP. YMMV, of course.
     
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  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Boy, howdy, those original stereo LPs sure stink up the joint (sonically)! The new mix on the new LPs brings about a needed change in direction.
     
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  24. AJH

    AJH Senior Member

    Location:
    PA Northern Tier
    I finally got around to downloading the 192/24 HR Download of "Sinatra & Swingin' Brass," and I was impressed with the sound- in fact, to me, it sounds pretty darn good. We need to hope they do the same thing to a number of the other Reprise albums when they offer them for HR download. Too much to hope for?
     
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  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Way back in November of 2014 (on my birthday, actually), I started this thread, then had to cough up this confessional nugget:
    All Alone is in the can (in terms of webpage construction), and we've been yacking like crazy about the Capitol stuff, so how about if we tackle this one, finally? Here's what I have:
    •Original R-1005 B4/A4 mono LP
    •Original R9-1005 A1/B2 stereo LP
    •Original R9-1005 A6/B3 stereo LP
    •Sinatra "suitcase" CD tracks (which, IIRC, mirror the first CD release mastering)
    •Recent HD download
    •Recent LP

    Let's use "Don'cha Go 'Way Mad" for samples.

    If you have clips from other versions that you can share for the comparison, please send me a PM so we can coordinate that (and thank you in advance).

    I suppose there are some obvious versions that we should try to add to the samples:
    •Entertainer of the Century CD release (There was one, right?)
    •Mono and stereo Warner-era pressings (F and FS on the label)
    •Later Warner issues that were actually pressed at Capitol (probably JW-1 or WW-1 or similar in the deadwax)
    •Reel-to-reel release

    Anything else is welcomed, too, of course.
     
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