Sinatra / Reprise Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Sinatra and Swingin' Brass" - 1962*

I see that @rudy sent a clip from this 1998 CD waaaaaay back when this thread started. Thanks!

Anybody have any others?

 

....and I'll add that I think Frank was having a BLAST singing the tunes on the Sinatra/Hefti 45 that was done prior to these sessions: Everybody's Twistin' and Nothing but the Best. Twistin' is one of those tunes that is so completely off the wall that, to me, it's hard to not have a good time right along with Frank, and I love the urgency and giddiness of the arrangement.

I've said it before: I sure wish Sinatra and Hefti and done more stuff together!

 

Just to get the ball re-rolling, let's have a quick listen to the "and Swingin' Brass" stuff (no Sinatra). Here is a comparison clip from the three digital versions of the album, using the instrumental break from the middle of "Don'cha Go 'Way Mad" -- no vocals. You'll hear the same 18 second segment repeated three times. All clips are level-balanced.

Clip #1: The order is: 1.) Original CD; 2.) EOTC CD; 3.) HD
(AUDIO LINK)

 

(From another thread)

That midrange comment always stuck with me, and tonight I finally loaded up Pick Yourself Up from the original CD (which is no audio nirvana, per se) and the HD download and did an EQ comparison on the two.

To make the suitcase CD have the same general EQ as the HD version requires an EQ curve like this (see the GOLD line in the graph, and ignore the dots, etc.), according to the FabFilter ProQ 2 EQ comparison plug-in in ProTools:

Translation: The HD version has pretty-cranked very-low bass (about 35Hz and below, and it's hard to say how much of that is even being heard on many systems), a pushed up upper bass (low midrange?? - 125 Hz to 500 Hz), and a major midrange suck-out from about 800 Hz to 2500 Hz vis-a-vis the suitcase CD. (The curve shows what you have to do to the CD version to make it have an EQ that matches the HD version.)

This is not a knock on either version overall, as it ONLY takes EQ into consideration, not stereo spread or dynamics or "how it sounds" on the whole. It does however, illustrate that aoxomoxoa's ears caught something that is legitimately there.

 

Still looking for other pressings/releases, if anybody can contribute anything for comparison. Also, some general questions, some of which just seem to keep raising their (ugly?) little heads during these Reprise comparisons:

1. Did this album receive a remix during the LP era, as did Ring-a-Ding Ding and Sinatra and Strings?
2. Were the CDs original mixes (I am leaning toward no, but have just scratched the surface), or remixes? How about the 2014 releases? (They seems to be remixes, but the jury's still out, I guess.)
3. Was there an F-1005 mono release in the US? I ask because my R-1005 was a cutout. (I do see an F-1005 Canadian copy listed at Discogs, and some of you oldies who have long memories may recall that, for some time, we had doubts about there being a mastered-at-Columbia F-1002 release of Swing Along with Me, but I found a Canadian copy in, of all places, Canada:

Regardless, the question remains (for both albums): Were there US copies (mastered at Columbia) that bore the F prefix?

 

Here are two brief files that may shed some light on the mix/remix situation, as they highlight reverb issues and are level-balanced.

Both files play the same clip, repeatedly, in this order:
1. B4 R-1005 mono LP (pressed at Columbia)
2. A1 R9-1005 stereo LP (pressed at Waddell - with almost unbelievably horrid tone quality)
3. A6 R9-1005 stereo LP (pressed at Waddell, and not much better than the previous clip)
4. Suitcase/1991 CD
5. EOTC 1998 CD
6. 2014 HD
7. 2015 LP (listen for the summed-to-center bass in the second file)

File #1: https://app.box.com/s/1gfl29chfxhel5ttavn5fs7jvpz78jzs
File #2: https://app.box.com/s/0fh9g0akgeiryg4vzmodd6pwxkl635up

 

Re: Pick Yourself Up:

Here's a 30-second clip that plays twice: https://app.box.com/s/awzij8ggosjxodbw8985275z3he9o43h

First time through = Original CD, EQ'd with that curve I quoted, to more-or-less match the 2014 HD version;
Second time through = HD (at 16-bit), no EQ applied

(You are thinking along the same lines as I am, by the way. I would have sworn the new versions are from a new remix, but I have my doubts.)

 

Which will raise the question for some of: Is the HD version, then, an "up-rez" of the 20-bit CD mix, or is it a new remix that very closely resembles an earlier digital mix? (I couldn't care less -- it's just numbers -- but somebody will want to know.)

I did the same stunt with the original stereo LP mix and the original CD release, and the original CD (suitcase) is definitely a different mix than the original LP. (There's markedly less reverb on the original CD than on the LP.) This again raises the question: Was there ever a remix during the LP era (as there was with Sinatra and Strings)? Anybody able to send a clip from, say, and 1970s/1980s US pressing?

One thing to keep in mind with this stuff is what was said earlier in the thread:

and

and I know that Steve has commented before that with Putnam's 3-track stuff, the recordings were made so that you could basically take all three faders, put them all up at zero, and voila, there's your stereo mix (maybe minus a little additional reverb/EQ), so even with a remix, there's not a ton that's going to change aside from EQ and reverb levels. (That said, the EQ and reverb choices were sometimes pretty bat-poop crazy.)

 

It's a bit of a technicality, admittedly, but FWIW, the sessions for this album are the first sessions after Sinatra had completely fulfilled his Capitol contractual obligations.

 

To wit: I've been listening to several versions of Don'cha Go 'Way Mad today, and they all have their plusses and minuses, but I think that in terms of tone quality alone, The Reprise Collection CD, which uses the original mix, has a quality of tone that is not quite as natural sounding and attractive on other versions. This surprised me, honestly. Of course, it also has more reverb, and sounds "a generation down," as they say, but in terms of tone (specifically), it's very nice, IMO.

Martin, of course, you are right about the compression being a potential factor on a remix, although I'm not sure there was any (maybe on just the vocal track?????) used on the first CD mix. It's definitely at play on the 1998 CD (whether it's a remix or not) and the HD version (ditto).

 

The stereo LP mix is definitely a different mix (substantially more, longer, and different reverb) than any of the digital versions (aside from the two cuts that appear on The Reprise Collection 4-CD set and maybe some other compilation CDs).

 

Same brief clip four times:

1. 1990 The Reprise Collection CD (Original mix)
2. Suitcase CD (remix)
3. HD ([a different??] remix) EQ'd to more-or-less match the suitcase clip
4. Repeat of 1990 The Reprise Collection CD (roughly) EQ'd this time (Original mix)

https://app.box.com/s/9gwh0xcavflmnk5veyh33c4b1k7l6cgv

 

Comparing the 2014 LP and 2014 HD:

The HD is less dynamic, and it also does the "thing" that several other recent Sinatra HD versions do: Each track is raised to maximum levels, so songs that used to kind of sit quietly between louder tracks now come booming out.

Here are the waveforms for the LP and HD versions (the HD is the "fatter"-looking one):