Sinatra / Reprise Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Sinatra and Swingin' Brass" - 1962*

I've got some clips added from these sources:
•The Reprise Collection -- CD mastering of two tracks, using the original stereo mix
•The 1992 CD - remix
•The 1998 EOTC CD - remix

New HD and LP versions will follow, but my take on the CDs is:
•The tracks in The Reprise Collection, while using a pretty soupy original stereo mix, are tonally very good.
•The 1992 CD (reused in the suitcase set) is all over the map. Some tracks have pretty good tone, while others are bright and thin. On the plus side, the trumpets sound open and brassy, and the bass sounds very natural (not "goosed"). Saxes are a little thin and sometimes razor-y in tone. Reverb levels are pleasantly reduced, and dynamics are wide open.
•The 1998 CD is pretty icky: Reduced dynamics (and it sounds squished, so that's not just a by-the-numbers comment, and waveforms are definitely and severely squared off in places), boxy/dark brass sound, dark sax sound, goosed bass levels, boxy vocals (some spots worse than others).

I don't like the 1992 CD, but will easily choose it as being better (overall) than the 1998 CD. (The 1998 CD is not without its better-than-1992 moments, but for the most part, it's inferior, IMO.)

Here's the link: 1962 - Sinatra and Swingin' Brass »
(Scan down to the heading, "1992 and Beyond: Stereo Remixes.")

 

Six more clips added, all involving the 2014 remixes: 1962 - Sinatra and Swingin' Brass » . (You'll need to scan down the page.)

Pretty amazing that this album has now had (count 'em) FOUR stereo mixes, each wildly different from the others.

 

Sorry to get into such minutiae, but I found an original UK A1-B1 mono LP on Ebay today, and here's the cover art:

It uses the revised artwork, with the blue blotch behind the word "Hefti," and the re-typeset and re-positioned song titles. So, did the original artwork (pictured below for comparison) never get issued at all in the UK? If so, that would suggest that somebody realized there were some issues with the cover very early on.
Original, unrevised version:

 

From "Don'cha Go 'Way Mad," nine audio clips are now posted: 1962 - Sinatra and Swingin' Brass »

3 mono LP clips (thank you @Arkoffs and @stevelucille )
3 stereo LP clips (2 original mix; one stereo mix #4)
3 digital release clips (thank you @rudy ) -- each from a different mix (as far as I can tell)

 

@stevelucille was kind enough to send along a clip from the S9-1005 stereo reel-to-reel tape release, and I was intrigued enough by what I heard that I bought a copy online yesterday and am waiting for it to arrive. Once it's here, I'll have a listen, and then post either Steve's clip or a clip from my own copy, depending on which is in better shape. (There were some issues with the condition of Steve's tape, which is why I'm slow to post it.)

Interesting (sort of?) to note that the reel-to-reel release used the revised version of the cover art:

Was there a "first-run" of reels that used the original artwork? Or did they all have the revised version?
Also, on the rear cover, the sides were reversed (and the owner of the copy pictured hand-wrote "II" and "I" to note this):

(The sequence appears to be correct on the actual labels.)

Still seeking LP samples
Also, in terms of the stereo LP clips that have been posted, I'd love to fill in a gap or two there, if anybody has something they could share from "Don'cha Go 'Way Mad." All that is posted are the three* stereo LPs that I personally own: a 1962 A-1 original*, a circa 1986 LP, and the 2014 reissue. I'd love to add something from the 1963-1985 time frame (if anybody has one), or any of the assorted non-USA editions that are out there. Anybody able to pitch in? Thanks in advance.

(*EDIT: I do also have an A-6 early pressing, but it sounds identical to my A-1, so I didn't bother posting it, so I actually have four stereo LP pressings.)

 

I'm not at a point yet where I'm comfortable picking my personal favorite release of this album, but I have tried to whittle things down to their essentials, and I've come up with this little chart:

There are at least two versions that, to me, can basically be thrown out and (for my own listening) never revisited, and those are:
•Early stereo LPs
•The 1998 EOTC CD, which is hard/harsh/dark/compressed compared to other versions.

I'll chime back in once the reel-to-reel tape arrives and I've spent some time with it. Anybody else have any thoughts? Lots of samples here, if you are curious.

 

The reel came today (Wednesday), and it had been advertised as "possibly new and unplayed," and I believe that to be the case. (Not bad for $7!) The original factory seal adhesive tape was still in place, and the "tape pack" was perfect, as I would expect from a new tape from the factory. Lest you think all was well, well....my guess is that the tape had been stored in a damp basement or garage, as, even after multiple, slow "library" wind attempts by me, it still played just like the tape on this Youtube video:

I can hear mom now: "Who wants more lasagne?"

Anyway, there was no way this thing was going to lay flat as it passed over the tape head, but I was able to tinker around with Ye Olde Tandberg and increase the tension a bit right around the playback head and get an "okay" (but not perfect) pass on Don'cha Go 'Way Mad, and a clip is now posted on the webpage, or via direct audio link here.

In the end, since it uses the original, reverb-heavy stereo mix, it's never going to win any awards, but that said, it's miles and miles ahead of the original stereo LP pressings, but a definite step down compared to the later, better LP masterings of that same mix. (IMO) Also, it's too bad that, by the time this album came out, Reprise had ended it's relationship with Ampex, as I suspect an Ampex-manufactured release would have sounded better than this Stereotape-manufactured release, but who knows?

(Thanks to @stevelucille who sent a clip of his reel, as well. Since this one is in better shape -- despite it's problems -- I've posted this reel instead.)

 

For those who like to play along at home, a few clips from Tangerine:

Clip 1: 1980s LP ---> 2014 LP ---> 1980s LP. I'm using the 1980s LP because 1.) TONALLY, I think it's very nice. It has way too much soupy reverb, the but tone is good; 2.) The balances are good; and 3.) Its dynamics are wide open. Here's the audio: https://app.box.com/s/7yn0m7fmu8hluqk5eyar7xe7vf5qcijk

Clip 2: 1980s LP ---> 2014 HD ---> 1980s LP. Here's the audio: https://app.box.com/s/8spo2xly12tp4n7dxnifzzchyqzw0d57

Clip 3: 2014 LP ---> HD ---> 2014 LP. How similar are the recent LP and HD releases? Here's a way to find out. Audio: https://app.box.com/s/8s41pq3fo039oeht6sws5kzc090waiiq

Clip 4: 2014 HD ---> 1992 CD ---> 2014 HD. As I've mentioned, the 1992 HD is quite thin sounding on some tracks, as evidenced here. (Forgive the clicky-clicks that are on the CD, which appears to have not imported 100% cleanly). Audio: https://app.box.com/s/s1kxu2e14c5zsvc0t58e72abi60yd5a6

Comments are encouraged, as always. That's the whole point of this stuff.

 

Only sometimes? (Some excellent comments there. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.) One thing that I run through my little brain now and then is that Point of No Return, one of the best stereo recordings of the Capitol era, was recorded seven months before Swingin' Brass, but the difference in sound quality is worlds apart. One sounds (sonically) alive and fresh and vibrant today, while the other (Swingin' Brass), despite all the efforts to tweak it, still sounds bad. (I edited my post to avoid using a naughty word.)

Speaking of the 2014 LP, there are some here who I've PM'd with who really hate that mastering, and, while I don't 100% agree, I at least get where they are coming from. I've got some issues with the LP, definitely, but I'm not in the "haters" category, and I do like how the bass levels sound un-goosed (unlike the concurrently-released HD version). That said, one clip that I posted a few days back really points out the tonal oddness (?) of the 2014 LP, I think, and it's this one: http://www.11fifty.com/Site_108/1962_-_Sinatra_and_Swingin_Brass_files/TheyCan'tTakeWW1LP-2014LP.wav. That clip starts with a 1980s LP -- which is, itself, riddled with shortcomings/quirks/issues of its own -- then repeats the same passage from the 2014 LP. Both have the bass blended to the center, coincidentally. To my ears, the 1980s LP has kind of a dull vocal with way too much reverb, and the remixed 2014 LP mercifully ditches the reverb, but picks up a hardness to the sound that's not very flattering. It's a "lesser of two evils," I suppose, but I think either of them could be defended as the lesser, depending on how you score things. They both seem to have major problems, but all versions of this album have sonic problems, as far as I can tell. I think there's still a case to be made for just throwing on a clean mono original and saying, "To heck with the whole thing!" Nothing is special about the mono, but very little is really bothersome, either.
I dunno......

 

Alright, time to put this one to bed, eh?

I've posted my final thoughts on the sound issues 3/4ths of the way down the page, here: 1962 - Sinatra and Swingin' Brass »


A special word of thanks to my pal Frank Costanza for helping me air my grievances (on the linked page)!

I hope others will chime in with their thoughts on sound on this one, as I really hate to be "the guy" on these things. I'd rather be part of a collective, as we all have two ears and equally valid views on this stuff (and there are gobs of clips to listen to, should anybody wish to do so), so please.....don't be shy to share your opinion!

 

I think we're pretty-much simpatico, or at least in each other's respective ballparks. Boy, you ain't kiddin' about those original (early) stereo LP pressings. Geez, those things are awful! Regarding the dry vocal, I agree that it does suit the album's style. If my late-pressing (1986?) stereo LP had a dry vocal, it would be the bee's knees, but it doesn't, so it isn't!

 

I wish he would have stayed at Radio Recorders (which he used for the initial, abandoned I Remember Tommy sessions). Anywhere without Putnam would have been better. Even Sound Enterprise studios served him better, sonically:

A couple of single tracks were done there, and they sound nice.

 

Oh, at some point, sure. For now, I'm trying to piece together some new stuff on Only the Lonely, but everything's fair game down the road. I appreciate the feedback, too!

 

Yep, I have no doubt that one's a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal dog!

 

One more thing: There are people reading this who absolutely HATE the sound of the 2014 LP, and I've really held my tongue when it comes to piling on the criticisms of that release, and it basically comes down to this:

Every release of this album is problematic in one way or another. I've got a CD-R that I put together back when we were doing this comparison stuff, and it's got a bunch of tracks from a bunch of sources, some of which are really cringe-inducing.

Last night, I was playing with the stereo in my wife's Camry, just going from disc to disc to see what was in the changer. When I got to disc 3 (or whatever), lo and behold, it was that old, long-forgotten CD-R with all the Swingin' Brass stuff on it, and "Goody, Goody" from the 2014 LP came on, and my knee-jerk reaction, which I've had repeatedly (and not just in the car, but on the "big stereo," too), is "Oh, that's nice." That may not be a ringing endorsement, but when other tracks on the CD-R make me reach for the "next track" button, any version that elicits an "Oh, that's nice" is doing okay by comparison. Also, despite all the flaws, I'll take it over the 2014 HD version, and I know that I'm in the minority on that one. The LP, flawed as it is, does not sound bass-goosed or hard/compressed to me, while the HD does, which is odd, because "by the numbers," the HD scores pretty well when run through Ye Olde Dynamic Range checker, but it sounds "hard" to me each time I hear it. There's something about it that rubs me that way (like an audibly compressed mastering would do), whether it's "technically" earned or not.

You know the old saying, "You can't polish a turd?" I think that Capitol's Ron McMaster (who is retiring, by the way) chose a type of Turd Polishing Cream that was, in its own way, as effective as or maybe even more effective than many of the other assorted creams that have been used to buff this one up over the years -- and there have been many such creams used!

I say this with more emphasis than usual: YMMV.