Sinatra / Reprise Sound Quality: "I Remember Tommy" (1961)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    How did that not chew the grooves?
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    I've never used a Garrard Type A, but here's a review from vinylengine:
    Garrard Type A Turntable Reviews - The Vinyl Engine

    <<The 4 speed Garrard Laboratory A is the stereo successor of the amazing RC88 for the early 1960s. Its glory lies in its changer mechanism which babies 78RPM records. In a standard spindle type changer the center hole in heavy 78rpms are easily gouged out. Since it pushes from the side this damage does not happen. Pulling the center spindle out when the stack is finished makes removing them much easier than other changers. 45s play well on it too with the optional 45 adapter. The big advantage over its ancestors is the new tone arm that Garrard designed for it. It is lighter and better tracking and much more customizable, although anti-skate was a thing of the future when it was designed. It is built like a tank and even though mine is nearly 50 years old runs like new. I would not recommend it for new high quality vinyl records, but if you like to stack vintage 78s or early mono LP and use a triple play GE RPX or VRII cart like I do this TT can not be beat. It will play stereo with a stereo cart and will do a good job if properly adjusted, but bear in mind this is 1962 audiophile and all idler drive turntables have a noticeably higher rumble on high quality records. All in all a great TT.>>
     
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  3. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Fair enough! My first stereo combo had a Garrard turntable in it....far from state of the art.

    BTW, no doubt Mr. S had some say in getting his new Reprise albums into that ad.
     
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  4. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    The cartridge mounts from below...should not be as large as the arm's top would lead one to believe.
     
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  5. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    The second ad photo (with the "I remember Tommy" cover is a fake.
    The original photo can be seen on an rare UK EP:

    Frank Sinatra - .....And Starring Frank Sinatra (Number 1)

    But I'm sure you know that:)
     
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  6. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    That’s actually a Bob Willoughby photo, taken during supper show rehearsals for “The Summit Meeting” at The Sands in Las Vegas in 1960 (coincident with filming for Ocean’s 11). It appears in Willoughby’s book, Sinatra: An Intimate Collection. The four dancers seated in the background are taking a break from “Lady of Spain” (sheet music on piano), while Frank interrupts their rehearsal.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. mahanusafa02

    mahanusafa02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I just found one of these in the wild yesterday, and the front cover (really, the whole gatefold package) is really flimsy. No die-cut thick cardboard as on the US gatefold. Many I've seen in the auctions with the lower right corner ripped off. Luckily this one was intact, probably VG+, holding a NM UK R-1003 LP.
     
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  8. Daveymoore

    Daveymoore Forum Resident

    Location:
    Manchester UK
    I was inspired by this thread to dig out my UK copy (distributed by Pye Records) last night, it has been a while since I played it. My copy is in exactly the same condition with a flimsy VG+ laminate gatefold cover with NM vinyl. Great listen, I must remember to play it more often.
     
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  9. Ken K

    Ken K Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sayreville, NJ USA
    Was it Thorne Nogar possibly? He sort of had a grumbly voice. Steve, is the fidelity/balance better on the Radio Recorders sessions? I know that during that era, just about everything recorded there sounded quite nice.
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No, not him. The fidelity is wonderful but Frank isn't so it doesn't much matter. Lovely four-track recording.

    I cobbled together a good performance on some of the unreleased songs but I don't know if they ever were issued.
     
  11. Ken K

    Ken K Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sayreville, NJ USA
    I'm surprised Frank didn't return to Radio Recorders after that session. It was after all one of the very best studios in California. I'm guessing that the four-track was one of the first ones to be used? I know it wasn't commonplace until around 1964 or so, with 3-track being the standard.
     
  12. frus75

    frus75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Barcelona (Spain)
    Matt, MMM and Steve:

    just a short note to let you know that sometimes you’ll may have the feeling that you’re out there alone, but be sure that many people like me is reading your posts and learning but don’t contribute because we’re not as knowledgeable as you.

    it’s marvelous to read all your posts.

    Thanks!
     
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  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Thank you!
     
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  14. Bob Belvedere

    Bob Belvedere Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Agreed.
     
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  15. Artur Torres

    Artur Torres New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo

    Location:
    Brazil
    Well, about the failure of the session at Radio Recorders, I think this: Frank didn't feel as comfortable in the studio as he did at United. At United, he was practically the owner of the space. If it weren't for that, I think Sinatra could have recorded even in the famous RCA studio in Hollywood, which was excellent.
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Just because I wanted to hear the album again for the first time in years (since starting this thread eight years ago), I've spent a fair amount of time playing a few different pressings over the last couple of days. In 2012, I wrote: <<There are many decent sounding versions of this album available, but I’m going with the original R9 pressing as my personal favorite, with the later 1-H pressing in second place, and the WW-1 pressing very nice, if a bit dark. >> I still think that's true. I can't quite put my finger on the sonic cause, but there's just some little "secret sauce" on that original (-7) stereo LP pressing. There are other excellent versions, but that original release sounds "right" to me. When the bass is softly playing in the right channel, then the harp plays arpeggios in the left, it's smooth as silk, and Frank's vocal tone is excellent.

    That's all! See you in eight years! :cool:
     
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  17. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Come back sooner than that, buddy!
     
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  18. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Still feel the same...the R9 is the best available version of the album. If someone is digital only, the late-90s CD was good...
     
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  19. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    That's what I like about you, @MLutthans. It may take a few years, but you always get the job done!!!!! :righton:
     
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  20. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Thus, the quote from my role model in my signature.
    6ffd30c52e70180e9cda21cbd9634f12.jpg
     
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  21. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    I have started listening to the first Reprise albums this week. I went thru RDD to 1005, haven't played these in a while.
     
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  22. Artur Torres

    Artur Torres New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo

    Location:
    Brazil
    In the last few days, I've listened to "I Remember Tommy" more often. And it's because of him that I correct my opinion of United's recording quality in Reprise's early years: this is a beautifully recorded album. It just needs a "delicate" treatment of volume, mixing and mastering.
     
  23. AJH

    AJH Senior Member

    Location:
    PA Northern Tier
    Arguably the best recorded of early Reprise albums. My personal favorite version is the Lee Herschberg remastered EOTC CD (9 46969-2). The imaging and soundstage on most of the songs are simply sublime.
     
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  24. batdude98

    batdude98 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dunstable, MA
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I think Sinatra felt very comfy at United/Western. He never went back to Radio Recorders.

    The thing about United, there was some "magic" that happened during the reduction mix from 3 to 2. It didn't always happen, but it happened. The I REMEMBER TOMMY stereo mix and the RAY CHARLES MODERN SOUNDS stereo mixes sounded better than the Three's of the same thing. At least that's what I remember from back when I was involved. Probably an extra tube layer and some good rebalancing. Didn't always happen though, that's for sure.

    Same thing at RCA-Victor with the Living Stereo series. Sometimes the three-tracks just lay there but the reduction mixes in stereo (what the old time engineers call "rerecording") have some magic, I guess caused by the tubes and processing. More holographic sounding, better midband, better focused.

    Just sometimes though. Other times the remixing for two channel really sucked big time from both companies, double the echo, double the compression/limiting and triple the distortion.
     
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