Sinatra / Reprise Sound Quality: "I Remember Tommy" (1961)

Oh no, Steve...wrong session. Although we don't discuss boots here I shall answer since asked by you. What I have heard is what many of us have, that is the sessions at United on May1-3, 1961. It is THERE on 5/3 that I discuss Mr. S having issues still with the phrase you mention. These tapes have been in circulation forever.

I sincerely apologize if I misled or upset you into thinking I had heard anything from RR in March, 1961.

 

Thanks, Steve. Sad, but true.

 

"There Are Such Things" first line is "A heart that's true..." not "A heart so true".

Perhaps Sinatra was suffering from a....cold.

 

Tommy Dorsey was also unique in that he may be the only musician who backed and played for Bing, Frank and...Elvis.

 

I was lucky one day about a year ago to find an original 1961 mono Reprise lp in the bins with nary a spindle mark and playing NM, only an extraneous tick or two.

R 1003-A 4 (in a circle) 10,038-13

-B (no 4) -15



My others, either mono or stereo, had, at least, groove wear on the inside tracks.


This thread prompted a reprise listening of this lp, tonight.

 

Glad to have another of these threads!

This thread made put on the EOTC CD, which is my favorite over the previous ones. Everything sounds more fuller and clearer. I also have a R9 stereo copy. I Remember Tommy is one of my most played Reprise albums and one reason is because I agree the recordings do have great sound quality to them compared to others from around this time.

 

Good to see this finished.

I've maintained that the R9 prefix (stereo) LP is the best way to hear the album, even if it's a little lean somewhere in the bass. Other people seemed to have tried - and failed to varying degrees - to add in some bass, but none of the attempts were completely successful. I'd rather hear it lacking as it is on the R9, than have it hurt the sound in other ways (directly or even indirectly - where the engineer then had to add more of something elsewhere for balance, disturbing the overall tone or more). The mono version does present the bass better in and of itself, and while it has its merits, I don't hear enough of an overall advantage to it over the stereo.

Hearing the clips from the reel tape issues made me think of how people criticize 8 tracks for being so awful. While the format itself had its own problems, most all mass duplicated pre-recorded analog tapes seem to be a crapshoot - open reel, 8 track, and cassette. Similar duplication quality issues could be all over the place on any of these - it could be very good/great, it could be awful, with a lot of in between too.

I don't hear the '91/'93/'95 CD issues being intentionally narrowed. I think it's a matter of how its (not that nicely) eq'd, and how the echo is used. Maybe I'm missing something - at first blush, I can sort of hear how someone might think that, but I don't think so. Maybe run a test for width/spread? What I think is happening - with the way that mix is done - the echo is being sent across the channels, I'd guess in some attempt to make the album appear less hard panned, and it ends up just blurring stuff. Not the worst sounding thing, but I don't like it.

As far as the bass being moved, unless its movement is limited to certain frequencies, I still hear it coming from the left. What I'm not hearing on it is the definition to the attack, the notes being played/its rhythm, etc., but I wonder if that's more of a side effect of the overall eq, instead of a intentional effect. When I listen to the clip of "I'll Be Seeing You" that comes only from the R9 LP, even there the bass sometimes seems harder left than other times. I think that's part of the recording, and maybe to do with leakage into mics on instruments that are in the right channel? It still makes me shake my head how they split the bass and drums across the channels on this and other early Sinatra/Reprise recordings. It doesn't really bother me, but to split them so far apart doesn't really make sense either. The image is going to sound very much "stereo" with the way everything else is laid out, whether they split the bass and drums like they are or not. A United 'thing', obviously...

 

Is George Lucas replacing some of the music in STAR WARS with material from I REMEMBER TOMMY?

 

Thanks for putting the finishing touches on this, Matt. i want to digest all the info and analysis, but I'm not surprised that the original Reprise stereo and mono vinyl are the way to go.

What's next?

 

A duet between Luke and Han on "The One I Love Belongs To Somebody Else," maybe?

 

MLutthans,

I concur with you that the R9 Stereo original is the best sounding this essential classic has sounded. My copy is delightful to my ears.

 

I'd forgotten whether you were proceeding by recording dates or release dates.

P.S. Thank you for illuminating the differences in the original and EOTC CD versions so finely.

 

SWING ALONG WITH ME/SINATRA SWINGS was recorded next - the sessions were held 2-3 weeks after TOMMY. Then POINT OF NO RETURN in September 1961, followed by SINATRA AND STRINGS that November.

 

When I am out digging, I'll see if one can be located.

 

I have the Reprise 20 disc boxed set (not the Leather Trunk, the Cloth Box - not the 2010 Remasters) and I have painstakingly reproduced each album on my HD so I can listen to them in the song-order they were meant to be heard - only to discover that "I'm Getting Sentimental ..." has a reprise (pun-ha!) at the end of LP side two that is not on the box set. Just the full version of the song on the box. I think the old standard CD has the reprised version at the end.

The information I have noted from other threads (wherever I have found them) says that it is a different take from either the LP or 45, but I don't see it listed in any of my discographies as to what take it is or that there is even a different recorded version on the LP.

I've heard the song off of a mono LP and it does sound a little different - but - is it just an edit? Joining the front of the song to the back of the song? If so, I think I can edit the song on the box set to replicate it like the LP for my own listening pleasure? Can't I? Or is it actually a different recording?

 

I've never seen any indication that it is a different take. I believe it is an edit of the same, final take (-5). The first four (unreleased) takes are available from unofficial sources, and they do not match.

 

I don't remember it being any different than what's in the rest of the song on the album either. I have an acetate of the reprise of the song, and there was some extra content on it. I haven't played it in years though to remember if - in the bulk of it - it matched take wise to the released version.