Sinatra's I've Got the World on a String - Sound Quality

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ShockControl, May 24, 2010.

  1. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Matt: Thank you for rescuing me from anonymity by "splicing" in my name.

    —Your friend, "Guest" :D
     
  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    You're welcome, Bob! :)

    It's "clean" (no splice/dropout/whatever) on my circa 1968 mono "This is Sinatra" LP.

    Matt

    EDIT: IT's an "F21," indicating a Hollywood Scully tube cut made 1967 or later.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    For those who care.

    Here are my old notes on I'VE GOT THE WORLD ON A STRING".

    Master 11,504-10. (Take 10)., 15 ips full track.

    Recorded April 30, 1953, engineer J. P.

    Original "A" take on Capitol T-768-A ("This Is Sinatra", side one).

    Dub on Fono Reel.

    Nelson Riddle conducting.

    Tape damage at beginning, oxide missing from crumple. Damage at unknown time.

    ----------------
    What this means to me is that the tape was damaged at the start at some point in history. The dub on the phono reel (for storing safety songs and singles that aren't on LP's) could possibly not have the damage if it was dubbed early in the history.

    No splice at the intro.

    If the 78 has no "crumple" it was either cut with the dub tape or it was cut with the master before damage occurred.

    That is as good as I can do, I don't have the original 78 (thought I did, sorry). I'll pull my "This Is Sinatra" LP out and give a listen, assuming it was cut from "A Take" master LP reel.

    You can do the same if you have the LP of THIS IS SINATRA. If yours was cut in Hollywood it was done from the master "A TAKES" reel and you can hear if it has the crumple or not. If not, we know that the damage happened later on in life and that the "phono dub copy" wouldn't have it.

    All of the songs on THIS IS SINATRA (volume one only!) are from the original session tapes, in other words, the LP reel has all the originals (with edits, etc.) spliced in LP order right on the reel. My old LP sounds like crap though, go figure.
     
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  4. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Okay, goofy question, Steve: Since this song was a single long before it was on THIS IS SINATRA, was the A master originally on a Fono Reel, then physically cut out of that Fono Reel, placed into the THIS IS SINATRA master reel, and replaced on the fonoreel by a dub? I'm guessing "yes."
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Yes, same for the other 11 songs on THIS IS SINATRA. The phono reel cards direct you to T-768 for the masters for all 12 songs.

    THIS IS SINATRA VOLUME TWO is the exact opposite, the LP is all dubs and the originals are on phono reels.
     
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  6. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Cool! Thanks!
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    See my EDIT in post #27 above.

    Matt
     
  8. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    There's a lot of us who care, Steve. Love to see ALL your old notes!
     
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  9. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    So the damage happened later on in life.

    One could use the "clean" intro from the dub copy and the remainder of the song from the master to make a perfect version of take 10. Groovy. Too bad it will never happen..:shake:

    I made those notes in 1992 when it seemed like DCC was going to get the Sinatra catalog. Glad I could put this one to some good use after all these years.
     
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  10. Ere

    Ere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Spring MD
    Glad I asked :)
    Now playing the version on This is Sinatra - 9 o'clock rainbow.
    thanks!
     
  11. Ere

    Ere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Spring MD
    Who has the 78?
    Frank on Capitol 78 are rare as hen's teeth around here... Columbia's by the crateful, however...
     
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  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    I think the last USA Capitol 78s for Frank were in 1958, "Nothing in Common"/"How Are Ya Fixed for Love." After that, all the singles were 45 only, at least in the USA. (Corrections welcome!)

    Matt
     
  13. Ere

    Ere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Spring MD
    His Capitol 78s are also rare on ebay... did marketing for him favor LPs from 1953 on?
     
  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    Here are the opening few seconds from two pressings, in case anybody wishes to hear what the discussion is about:

    https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7qgH1HDldamTTg1cURUeEVkQ3M

    It starts with my 1960s "Star Line" Hollywood-cut pressing (no defect), and alternates with the 1984 digitally remastered cut (w/defect). The glitch comes right after that initial, big, fat note on the second sample. You'll hear it.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    :(


    How sad is it that THAT never happened?
     
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  16. niceneasy

    niceneasy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United States
    Agreed.

    Nobody in the business deserves a proper comprehensive reissue treatment in audiophile format like Capitol Sinatra does.
     
  17. Ere

    Ere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Spring MD
    Hi Steve:
    Are you saying that the 78 was cut from a different take (B) than the version (A) that appeared on the This is Sinatra! lp?
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    No, only one take with an insert. Different tape copies. A & B are just different tape machines or the A was dubbed onto B.
     
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  19. 3rd Uncle Bob

    3rd Uncle Bob Forum Resident

    I was hoping that the U.K. compilation This Is Sinatra 1953-1957 didn't have this glitch but unfortunately it does.
     
  20. niceneasy

    niceneasy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    United States
    Looks like the tape damage occurs at least as early as 1984.

    Any folks with 70s pressings that may have this fault, so we can try to figure out around about when it happened?
     
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  21. Bob F

    Bob F Forum Resident

    Which goes to disprove the misconception that the 1994 2-CD MFP set used the same tapes as the 1998 21-CD UK box set, SINATRA: THE CAPITOL YEARS. The THIS IS SINATRA! disc in the big box set does not have the glitch. The earlier MFP product stems from inferior sources, in comparison to the box set, IMO.
     
  22. 3rd Uncle Bob

    3rd Uncle Bob Forum Resident

  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Reopened
     
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  24. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo!

    Location:
    Brooklyn

    >>>>>>You must have had promo and "Radio Service" copies which were vinyl. The hundreds of thousands of disks that went into the record stores were overwhemingly shellac.
     

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