Single-ended triode stereo amplifiers: SET-Amp Owners/Opinions?*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by VinylSoul, Sep 14, 2011.

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  1. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
  2. inperson

    inperson Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Got it today. I was an idiot I ordered it to be 110 power, eventually I will take it back home to the US, and I plugged it directly into the 220 wall outlet. The fuse saved the power transformer! It seems to be okay. Sounding better with each hour, about 4 hours now. This thing is much bigger than I thought it would be.
     

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  3. Peter Walker

    Peter Walker New Member

    Location:
    Italy
    I attempted to live with several 300b based set amps but it always ended in divorce. The least objectionable was one from Border Patrol when running Tannoy Dual Concentric 15" Gold corner horns but even then I thought the bottom end sloppy and lacking in speed.
    Several decades of solid state came next with the best to my ear being a massive pair of Nelson Pass Class A mono blocks ( forgotten the model number) then second best Nuforce 'Reference V3II mono blocks but they had a sterile, if very dramatic sound. I've now settled on the best amps I've ever heard in my own system, Icon Audio MB845 'Special' VII mono blocks.http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/mb-845-mk-ii/ These use 845 output tubes . Icon describes them as triodes but I have no idea if the circuit is single ended .
    These give the ambient detail and tonal richness so many tube lovers die for but with astonishing transient response. I find it hard to describe them in detail though and always settle on simply describing them as 'highly emotional'.
    That probably doesn't answer your question but I'm not the person to be un-biased about single ends amps having failed to get on with lots of them.OK, I can understand why some people fall in love with the rosy glow mid-range most SE amps provide but to my ears that's too much treacle being poured all over the wrong kind of music. OK, small acoustic groups survive but that's about all in my opinion. Others will disagree vehemently.
     
  4. Sneaky Pete

    Sneaky Pete Flat the 5 and That’s No Jive

    Location:
    NYC USA
    I have an SET headphone amp. I use it to drive a vintage pair of electrostatic cans. It sound really lush and liquid. I would have to change my preamp and speakers if I wanted an SET in my main system.

    I've heard them in a good set up but I didn't think it was right for me. They can sound great so my little headphone set up gives me a bit of the experience on the cheap.
     
  5. FranklinLG

    FranklinLG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Well, here's my 2 cents, I've had amps in the sub $5K range and offer this input from that perspective. I have not owned more costly amps, so I really can't comment. What amps I`ve owned and had in my set-up include some from class D varieties to class A, like a nice Pass XA and other SS. I even had those "magic" speaker boxes by zu.

    Last year I finally got into the SETs. I bought a pair of the Sophia Electric 300B monos, and immediately fell in love with the sound. This set me off on an entirely new path, which has brought me greater audio enjoyment than anything before.

    In any event, I love my SET's, and while I may look at another pair of tubes, including a possible push-pull amp, I think the 300B's is pretty special. My interest in other tubes has more to do with interest in matching an amp to music genre. For now, though, it's the 300B, and I've started tweaking the SE 300B with some NOS tubes like a 1940's RCA 5u4G and a Ken Rad 6sN7, and found that this has taken the depth, darkness, and musicality to another level.

    But as much as I love the SETs, I MUST state that speaker matching is critical. I toyed with pairing them with some old Kestrel's that I had sitting around, which were 86db. Sadly, they didn't work out so well... In any event, last Fall I picked up a pair of DeVore Orangutans, and I've finally hit my audio nirvana! The matching is simply spectacular, and the sound is sublime.

    So my 2 cents are these, I love the SET 300B. But if you go SET, make sure you mate them properly with speakers. And whether it is the Orangutans (a/k/a O96's) or something like the Tannoy Canterbury SE, you'll find just how special they can be!

    PS - Steve, let me know when you're ready to part with that dust collector Wavac.

    PPS - Bill, I'm surprised you feel the SET's don't do the Tannoy's justice. I think the Tannoy's are incredible speakers. You and I discussed them about 14 months ago, and I really loved everything about them. However, the WAF (wife acceptance factor) and my love of the O96's look is what ultimately drove me to the O's. :goodie: Still, those Canterbury's are pretty incredible!

    PPPS: Incidentally, the ribbon tweeter on the Zu Essence really needs some tube magic to counter-balance it. I'm just saying. Also, it's my opinion that the Zu speakers don't really sound right until you crank them up. Which STRONGLY supports the argument for more power if you have Zu's. They simply did not sound right until I cranked them up and moved close to 12 with my pre-amp volume. So I would be cautious about calling them "magic" SET tube boxes!
     
  6. FranklinLG

    FranklinLG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Wow, those are beautiful! I'm going to have to take a look at these.
     
  7. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    You'll likely have problems in the US as well. Most voltages are 120v now and they are still trending upwards.
    -Bill
     
  8. inperson

    inperson Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I meant I was an idiot for forgetting it was 110 and I plugged it into the 220 outlet. It'll be alright. :thumbsup:
     
  9. ktc1

    ktc1 New Member

    Location:
    Dundee, IL, USA
    That's a beautiful amp. Just my personal taste but I much prefer the industrial look over amps that feature fancy wood trims. I'm really intrigued by some of the 845 SET's, especially those Icon Audio amps. They again have that industrial look I really dig, big glowing tubes and plenty of power.
     
  10. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    I would much prefer 211s to 845s as those take too much drive power.
     
  11. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    Pretty rugged too.
    [​IMG]
    -Bill
     
  12. FranklinLG

    FranklinLG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Now you're getting crazy - 211's... Whoa!
     
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    The 211 (AKA US Army Signal Corp. VT-4-C) is a wonderful sounding tube. I have many RCA Radiotron and GE's from the 1930's and early 1940's.

    Wish I had an amp that needed them. I would be happy.
     
  14. ktc1

    ktc1 New Member

    Location:
    Dundee, IL, USA
    Please elaborate; I don't know much about, or have experience about either tube.
     
  15. ktc1

    ktc1 New Member

    Location:
    Dundee, IL, USA
    Man that's nice!
     
  16. Zanth

    Zanth Senior Member

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    How about one of these?:

    [​IMG]

    I've heard it many times (as well as the mono block version) and the sound has always been excellent (primarily used with Tannoy Churchills). They are more linear than 300bs with more power, but they retain the SET nimbleness, which I have always appreciated.
     
  17. Peter Walker

    Peter Walker New Member

    Location:
    Italy
    If you really want to scare yourself try these from Kronzilla below :-
    Yes, 845's require lethal voltages to drive them but Icon have solved that problem and the results are staggering, especially with you consider the tubes (Valves to us outside the US) are an almost 80 year old design.
    Besides, having 100 watts to play with widens the range of speakers that work and that has always been one of my problems with SET'S as most horn loaded speakers I don't get on with. OK, I could live with Tannoy 'Westminsters' again but I'd still miss the clarity of mid-range you get from more modern designs.
    Despite denials from a number of anachrophiles, materials science and speaker design has advanced of late.
     

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  18. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    http://www.tubebooks.org/tubedata/tt4.pdf

    The 211 has a mu of 12, which makes it reasonably sensitive. The 845 has a mu (amplification factor) of 5.3, meaning over twice the drive voltage is needed.
     
  19. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    All vacuum tubes, aside from a few types for 12 volt car radios require "lethal voltages".

    With the big ones you just have to practice the same safety procedures more rigidly.
     
  20. ktc1

    ktc1 New Member

    Location:
    Dundee, IL, USA
    Georgous!
     
  21. Peter Walker

    Peter Walker New Member

    Location:
    Italy
    I stand corrected. I should have said 'More lethal than most' outside of radio transmitter valves etc.
     
  22. Burt

    Burt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kirkwood, MO
    These ARE "radio transmitter valves". RCA lists them as Transmitting Tubes.
     
  23. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I was part of the 'triode revolution' when the first Sound Practices magazine came out. I had time with the original AES 300B amp (SE-1?), built my own 6B4G PP amp, SE 2A3 amp, and a SE 300B amp.

    My problem with them mirrors SH's - not enough dynamic power. Especially with rock 'n' roll, the amps, even with 96dB efficient speakers would fall on its face. Perhaps the best combination I had was the SE 2A3 (6C6 pentode input tubes) amps with a pair of vintage 12" Stephens coaxs. There was enough power, and with the big cabinets, it somehow worked. Not terribly 'hi-fi', it was an enjoyable system.

    My other SE experiment was much more satisfying - a ultra-linear EL156 driven by a EF86 in pentode mode. With ~20Ws of power, it sounded great with a pair of UREI 813As. Very snappy/fast, great bass... and a lively midrange. It only ran out of juice at extreme listening levels. After converting it to 6550/KT88, I've since sold them to a friend where they get daily use. You see, Magnepans just require much more power than I could ever get out of SE.
     
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  24. JBryan

    JBryan Forum Resident

    Location:
    St Louis
    I fell for SET hard and after a couple of years, I was trying to make a 10Y amp work in my system. I had 106dB efficient horns on top and 100dB horns on the bottom. Going back and forth between the 10Y and 45 amps, I was mesmerized by the top end but felt the bottom was falling behind. Frustrated, I went back to push/pull amps then digital with even a brief revisit to SS.

    Nothing I heard in my system was as satisfying as SET so I figured the only way left to go was to bi-amp. I got an active xover, powered the top with 45's, digital amps on the bottom and while I'm still not 100% on the digital amps, I finally can dial in all the bottom end I want to match the sweet sound of SET on top. In the end, I'd like to find more pleasing bass amps, match levels and build a passive xover but I'm quite satisfied with the set up for now.
     
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  25. inperson

    inperson Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I use my single ended amps with light music and jazz. If I listen to heavier stuff I switch over to my 6L6 push pull amp. I love em both.
     
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