Slight Rant- No More NOS Tubes

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Jun 9, 2018.

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  1. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have SS amps going right now, in the middle of the afternoon and I light up the tubes during the evening.
     
  2. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    This site looks very interesting and reasonable- thank you!

    Do you guys agree with the graphic about tube tonal balance profile diagram (especially preamp tubes)?
    The Telefunkens I own are the darkest that I own. I wish it would be as forward as the graphic shows.
    Never tried a Siemens tube but if they truly are a "front row" tube I really want to.
     
  3. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Is it any wonder there's only about five women posting on this board?
     
    Jeffreylee, SandAndGlass and sfoclt like this.
  4. Abbagold

    Abbagold Working class hero

    Location:
    Natchitoches, LA
    [​IMG]
     
    Strat-Mangler and Guitarded like this.
  5. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    Clearly we need our Bias checked.
     
  6. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The UK is about to start remanufacturing tubes using reclaimed Mullard Blackburn manufacturing equipment Great British Valve Project

    Should be very interesting....
     
    Razakoz, Shiver, billnunan and 3 others like this.
  7. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Apparently they have already begun. They are selling tubes from their site, and have done so for at least a couple of years. I'm a little suspicious of the project--at least for their 300B, a knowledgable person has expressed that he thinks it is a Chinese tube they are showing on their website. I can't evaluate that judgement. Would be interesting if anybody knowledgable could chime in ...
     
  8. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Yeah, I'm skeptical too. The language on the site says they've acquired all this equipment which they're seeking money to restore and, as to the tubes they're already selling, the language is... "Each tube is scrupulously tested and only the best get badged with the Brimar thermionics logo. We hope you enjoy our selected products and with each purchase you will be bringing us closer to British valve manufacturing again" -- seems like they're rebadging current production tubes to build the brand, but not making their own yet, or so the language on the site seems to suggest. I mean, they're offering a full range of tubes and tube types, they'd have to have been ramped up to full scale production already. Why not just be more forthright?
     
    Encore likes this.
  9. bean_counter

    bean_counter Well-Known Member

    From their FAQ, "Are any valves made in the UK?"; "Unfortunately not at the moment but we hope to start manufacturing in 2019"

    Looks like they have a long road ahead of them. I wish them well, but the 20 year gap for Western Electric 300B reissues shows how hard it is to pull off.
     
    Strat-Mangler, Encore and chervokas like this.
  10. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Thanks. That had escaped me.

    Yes, I also hope the make it. However, I do think it is a bit confusing that they start to sell Brimar-branded tubes that are just rebranded tubes. The above information in the FAQ should definitely be more prominent.
     
    Joe Spivey and bean_counter like this.
  11. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    I'd say the biggest issue is "We now need to assemble a small army of volunteers with experience in project management, fund raising, finance, negotiation, law, production engineers, etc."
     
  12. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    I don't know if anybody has spotted an indication of their progress. For now, I have signed up for their newsletter :)
     
  13. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    Perhaps they'll find a volunteer with customer engagement experience who will contact you! :)
     
  14. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Like they did with their other 151 subscribers :laugh:
     
  15. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    They are clearly underfunded, and rely on old codger volunteers (like ex-mullard techs). The equipment they have been gathering together was scattered around Europe, and every bit of it needed restoration.

    I was going to volunteer, being an old codger myself - but they are two hours drive each way, which is just too far.

    On the subject of tube manufacture, this guy in Czechoslovakia is re-manufacturing Nixie indicator tubes https://www.daliborfarny.com/blog/ . Cheap they are not - $145 per tube, or around $2,000 for a 6-digit clock with internet synchronized time.
     
  16. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    There's something fun about an internet-sync'd nixie clock. Kind of like a cloud-operated Victrola.
     
  17. I posted an "experiment" I did last Sunday afternoon as I was deadly bored. I'm a nut for NOS Japanese tubes. I have several NOS 12AX7-family Japanese tubes from Hitachi, Hit Ray Matsushita,NEC and Toshiba and some 12AU7 too. I also have a matched pair of Psvane 12AX7 MK II (the ones that come in a box) and another pair of golden pins current production Gold Lion 12AX7.
    My Phono preamp is an EAR 834 "clone" that works like this: V1 tube does around 75% of the amp for both channels, V2 tube does the remaining 25 % of ampand also RIAA de-eq for both channels, and V3 tube is used as a buffer tube on a cathode follower configuration, that tube can be changed from a 12AX7 to a 12AU7, not endorsed by the designer of the original EAR 834 but for some of us this gets the most out of the EAR 834, clone or not clone.
    It happens that I have a pair of NOS Hitachi 12AX7 that I find a bit bright for my taste. I also find the sound of the Gold Lion 12AX7 dull and treble shy on the EAR 834 "clone". I put one of the Gold Lion 12AX7 as a V1 (75% of amp) and one of the bright Hitachi 12AX7 as a V2 (25% amp plus RIAA) and I put a NOS RFT 12AU7 as a V3 (buffer tube). What I got was a killer sound, very detailed with deep controlled bass, sweet and present mids and highs but not overly sweet and warm, the sound of this combination is great, very smooth, I like it, and I enjoyed it even more coming from two pairs of tubes that I never intended to use on this Phono preamp, I didn't think about selling them either. This is the combination I'm currently using, I know I will eventually change them for one of the Hitachi 7025 x2 plus Hitachi 12AU7 x1, Matsushita 12AX7A x2 plus Matsushita 12AU7 x1 or Hit Ray 12AX7A x2 plus Hit Ray 12AU7 x1, and in the end of the tube rolling the combination of Gold Lion+Hitachi+RFT will be back again on my Phono preamp sockets. A Phono preamp with a design like this is a lot of fun as one can tweak its sound to its will and bank account. I've never mixed Hitachis with Matsushitas,maybe I'll do it on another Sunday afternoon.
    Regarding new production tubes, I could perfectly live with the matched pair of Psvane 12AX7 I own matched with either a NOS NEC or RFT 12AU7 as a V3 tube (buffer tube).
    I must say my favourite tubes of all the ones I own are the Hitachi 7025 matched with an Hitachi or NEC 12AU7 and the Hit Rays 12AX7A+12AU7, the sound of both combinations on this Phono preamp is outstanding,very very smooth sounding, warm and with a lot of presence without emphasizing mids and lows too much, and I got them all NOS and in their original boxes for dirty little money.
    I ordered a couple of weeks ago a pair of TJ Full Music as I've read great things about them. Do I think a new production tube can sound as good as a NOS on a Phono preamp? I don't know, as I said I could perfectly live with the Psvane 12AX7 MK II I own 'though I prefer the Hitachis, Hit Rays or Matsushitas, but that I hadn't heard a tube that can outperform these (and they're Japanese tubes, as much as I love them they are not highly regarded here) doesn't mean that it doesn't exist or may exist on the near future.
     
    billnunan likes this.
  18. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I wish I knew why tubes of the same type sound different. I can think of only two mechanisms:

    1. Manufacturing tolerances and detailed construction. In other words the electrodes - particularly the heater/cathode/grid. That would leave static measurements of performance on a tube tester (conductance, anode/plate current and leakage) looking fine, but could just impact on dynamic performance through internal ac electric fields moving parts of the tube around at audio frequencies.

    2. Microphonics. Mullard knew all about this, and published two papers in 1962 where they used a strobe and microscope to visualise bits of a tube vibrating and the way that detailed construction helps or hinders that. These articles are linked at the bottom of this summary page Valve Microphonics
     
  19. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    thanks for the suggestion , i gave andy a call today and am ordering some amperex and siemens tubes. very excited about the siemens tubes- very rare, never heard them and it sounds like they have exactly the sound i am after.
     
  20. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    good post, you make these tubes sound interesting. i have a set of CEI that are supposedly made by matsushita.
    do you know if they are right there with the best matsushitas (12AX7)?
     
    Kiko1974 likes this.
  21. Thanks for your compliments. Why don't you post some pictures of your CEI 12AX7 tubes? I'm quite used to their printing even if they're rebranded and their plates. Post some and I most likely be able to tell you if they're Matsushita or not?
    Have you tested them. In what kind of use? Do you like their sound?
     
  22. FLEMKE

    FLEMKE Senior Member

    Location:
    CROOK COUNTY IL
    Let us know how they sound.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  23. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    Wow! Talk about an unexpected project! I wish them the best of luck!

    However I'll be surprised if they can even get past some of the most basic modern environmental regulations considering the mercury content inside of tubes.
     
  24. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Most vacuum tubes work better with vacuum in the tubes, not mercury vapor...

    The getter is rather esoteric secret sauce though.
     
  25. I stopped using NOS tubes a few years back, cost vs. performance was my issue.
     
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