so how do you clean your vinyl albums?

Surely, you should bill them.

 

On the other hand I've dug LPs out of old abandoned pack houses with collapsed roofs, 40 year stays in damp basements and hot attics, the bottom of vertically stacked piles in junk shops and haphazardly arranged closets. A surprisingly good number of them, after a thorough cleaning and some tender loving care have turned out to play amazingly well. It there aren't deep scratches vinyl records are actually extremely tough.

 

I have cleaned up some very dirty records that turned out to sound great, too. The idea that buying used vinyl because of not wanting to clean is legit, for those who just don’t want to do that, but I would suggest vinyl may not be for such a person, after all. As some of us have said in this thread, even brand new records can arrive filthy from the plant.

 

Sorry - the video was just to demonstrate the method, not to show the results. I think it's pretty obvious from the video that there is no scouring involved, and the dry glue encapsulates just about anything water soluble or loose on the surface. I would guess that about half of any grease comes of with each peel. With some stubborn records I've done three peels and I would say the result was consistent with the theory that 7/8ths of grease was removed. Of course, a solvent can possibly do better, but it could also spread dissolved oils around, which is why I suspect that on balance least harm is done with the PVA method. Of course, many people want to clean records in the minutes before playing them and some people like extra boxes and noisy gadgets in their man-cave, but PVA peeling is very cheap and works as well as anything if you don't want more clutter than a bottle of glue in a cupboard.

 

Down at the microscopic level, say 15KHz wavelength, vinyl is like butter. Any brushing movement will inevitably drag particles along the groove, and some of those particles will be hard enough to leave footprints. The effect may not be easily audible after one clean, but in the long term I think it's fair to suggest that all brushing techniques involve some small amount of scouring, i.e. dragging particles across the record surface. Brushes are never actually clean, and nor are record surfaces or the solvents applied. Probably the effect of this is insignificant over a few years, but I'm paranoid and I want my great-grandchildren to be able to experience my six copies of Deep Heat '89 unimproved ;-) And I'm a cheap-skate with too many boxes in my cave anyway...

 

ok, for those of you that like the Record Doctor machine - what would you say is the basic difference between the older Record Doctor machine and the later Record Doctor VI? From the description on Amazon, all I could tell was the newer one is quieter.

 

Thanks for the tip. What type (age, cost, size, etc.) of stylus do you use? Do you up the tracking force?

 

I agree.

 

I have many, but the two I use most often are Ortofon Fine-Lines (Stylus 30) and Audio Technica MicroLine (VMN40ML).

My tracking force is set to optimize tracking, I don't believe it needs to be any higher to clean (we're already effectively at a PSI in the tons).

 

I squirt stuff on the record, scrub it with a brush, then have a machine that sucks the filthy slurry off the record.

 

To clarify, I never use a dry brush. I find that while they can remove some debris, they tend to force smaller particles deeper into the groove. I much prefer an air blaster (Giotto) to blow off clinging debris without making the problem worse.

 

We'll, I'm more of an Elvis man than a Beatles guy, but to your point, one can certainly enjoy the music without all these cleaning methodologies. However, it's SOOOO much better when the vinyl is truly clean. That is my experience and why I take the time to clean. I wouldn't call it a ceremonial routine as don't clean every record the same way. Some get the full Monty, others I don't bother cleaning at all other than a quick air blast.

 

The 15kHz sound is reproduced by side wall ridges. At 15 kHz any appreciable groove modulation can produce stylus forces that can exceed 1000-g's (this is not a misprint). The vinyl composition is remarkably robust against this type of force along with the >10,000 pounds/in^2 pressure from the stylus. So, using a brush to develop fluid velocity is nothing. If you want to better understand the groove forces here are two very technical articles

Disc Phonograph Records by Dr. A. M. Max, RCA Engineer Magazine 1966-08-09 1966-08-09.pdf (worldradiohistory.com)

Disc cutting in theory, Hugh Finnimore, Studio Sound and Broadcast Engineering, July 1975 Studio-Sound-1975-07.pdf (worldradiohistory.com)

 

I know you weren't asking me but being on a fixed income myself I'd like to add my thoughts here. You don't need to spend a lot of money to get the same results as those that use very expensive RCM and Ultra Sonics. Some people just use their sink doing everything completely by hand. I'm somewhere in between. I mix my own cleaning solutions (see Neil's book) a gallon at a time so with a little investment in the key ingredients that is much cheaper than buying commercial brands. I started by using basins to clean with but have since picked up the "Squeaky Clean" for about $140 and have been pleased with the time saving. Then I have 1.5 hp wet/dry vac that will run you somewhere between $35-$80. Add some Record Doctor brushes ($20) and a few spray bottles ($1-$2) and I'm set. So that's about a $300 investment all together. So it's very doable on a retiree's budget!

 

Record Doctor VI Record Cleaning Machine (Carbon Fiber)

I think this site’s product description might be more clear as to the improvements in the VI versus the V.

 

The bristles of the brush aren't narrow enough to get all the way down into the groove. The brushing action pushes the distilled water based cleaning mixture down filling the groove with suds. It has no where else to go, the bristles are at the surface, so the solution is trapped between there and the bottom of the groove. The agitation creates the suds that react to the particles clinging to the groove walls, dislodging/dissolving/bringing to the surface. So bristles never touch the groove wall. There's nothing to worry about.

 

What’s in the liquid? No chance of residue?

 

Some brushes have bristles that will absolutely enter the groove. Carbon fiber for one. The Stasis brush for another. Nylon bristles that are tapered will as well.

 

Maybe Neil @pacvr will be willing to address this. Perhaps I over generalized. The Record Doctor brushes aren't narrow enough to go beyond the top area of the groove. My memory sometimes fails me but I'm thinking that holds true for most if not all other brushes per Neil's book.

 

The specific Record Doctor Brush bristles specified in the book and I previously referenced are not narrow enough to get into the groove. But, as @Phil Thien says there are other brushes that can, and book specifically states:

"XII.5 Other Bush Details: The Osage™ brush and one version of the Statis™ brush have white nylon bristles. Off-white is the natural color of nylon. Black is produced by adding a permanent pigment. Performance wise, there is no difference. Additionally, Stasis™ is now offering a record brush with bristles tapered to 10-microns. At, 10-microns, this brush will deeply penetrate the groove. Finely tapered bristles are advertised for some toothbrushes. The problem with the fine taper is how robust will they be and is it beneficial to get deep into the groove? If the bristle is too soft then it will not move the fluid as well, and it's the fluid chemistry and motion that is doing most of the cleaning. If the bristle is too stiff, then the tips will facture and the pieces are now in the groove. So, the jury is out on whether the 10-micron tapered bristle is going to be beneficial, and whether the brush will last as long as the current 50-micron version.".

 

I put a disc in my SACD player.

 

And there is some evidence (search this site and others) that improper use of those carbon fiber brushes (and others) are fracturing at the tips and leaving behind very small particles. Carbon fiber is stronger than steel along the shaft, but it is very fragile crosswise and easily fractures.

As far as any argument that one could measure the loss of length - if only some of the >500,000 bristles in a brush are breaking say 5-microns (0.000197") each time, you are unlikely to ever notice.

 

I hope you have spare drives for when the laser dies; or the company will support it for the future. I had a Krell DT10 CD transport and Wadi 27ixV3 digital front, and when Philips screwed everyone by discontinuing the drive unit CDM4Pro with no notice (no option to buy spares) and Wadia orphaned the DAC, destining both units to the landfill, I moved my 'primary' source to vinyl. Note when/if buying 2nd hand digital - check the company site to see if they have kept all the old documentation and drivers. Some audio companies are very good at keeping legacy documents available - it demonstrates some integrity. If not, you may want to consider otherwise.

I have digital playback, and it's convenient and relatively cheap, and it's nice, but it does not hold a candle to my vinyl front end (by design). I got burned by digital once, I will never again spend heavily on digital. You know what they say, fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. (PS/I own only one Mobile Fidelity record - silver label, paid very little, so I did not get burned).

However, let's not allow this thread to tangent off to digital vs vinyl; that horse has been beaten to death too many times. To each their own, so long as you are enjoying your music, that is really all that matters.

Peace

 

Thanks Neil. So I was half right, half wrong. So I should rephrase. You don't need a brush with bristles thin enough to get down in the groove. As Neil observes, "it's the fluid chemistry and motion that is doing most of the cleaning."

 

Oh I am under no illusion that they don't fracture, but I don't sweat it as the brush collects any bits on the next revolution, or the next play.

It is compromises all the way down.