Songs Beginning with a Half-Diminshed 7th Chord on the Flatted 5th

I bet King Crimson and/or Van Der Graaf Generator have done this at some point-- but they weren't pop acts... and I am not educated enough to give possible examples.

 

I'm sure there must be examples in art rock, classical, and jazz, but not many examples of pop tunes.

Of course, the line between these genres and pop is fluid.

Brian Wilson comes close on "Don't Talk," but the chord in question is the second chord and not the first.

 

Like others I'm a bit confused about the exact chord you mean. If you mean B-D-F-A the B natural would really be considered an augmented 4th of F or the 7th of C, although I would have to see the following chords to make a more informed decision. Starting on a diminished or augmented chord is unusual but in the 20th C those chords were often used without conventional resolutions mandatory in the 19th C. There are also chords of the augmented sixth with augmented 4th that are in various inversions.

 

OOOOOKKKKK...now I get it!! How could I have not understood?

 

What I was trying to convey was starting the song using the half-diminished chord occurring on the flat-five degree of the scale.

So, for example, in "Sally's Tomato," posted above, the tune is in Ab, and it begins with a D half-dimished. ("Sally's Tomato," though, as an instrumental, is not truly a "song.")

"Two for the Road" modulates from F to C, so while it starts on a B half-dimished, that could be interpreted as the 7th degree of the scale, if we are considering the song to be in C.

"Stella by Starlight," as I also posted, is often played by jazz musicians starting with this chord - an E half-diminished in the key of Bb, although that is not how Victor Young wrote it. That would be an example of a chord substitution that has more or less become the standard chord.

And, yes, I realize that in 20th-century "serious" music, this would not at all be considered wild or anything, but it seems to be an unusual device in pop songs.

 

Maybe a Dave Matthews tune?

 

Antonio Carlos Jobim - "Corcovado"

 

FOR THE WIN!

 

A suggestion: how about actually saying what notes this chord consists of, so that anyone unfamiliar with the diminished/augmented/flattened terminology can still know what you are talking about?

For example, if someone asked me what an augmented 5th was, I would give as an example: C/E/G#. It shouldn't be that hard to do something similar for your flattened diminished thingy.

 

The notes would of course be dependent on the key.

If we are in the key of C, the notes would be F# -A - C - E.

 

See what you started?

 

OK but that is usually called the augmented 4th rather than the diminished 5th. In the key of C the augmented 4th chord would be F# - A- C-E as you state. But the diminished 5th would be written Gb and it would be a diminished chord on Gb. The notation should indicate the direction of movement of the altered tone.

 

Yes, but sonically, the results are the same. Also, I was not restricting my question to indicate particular movement, so either sharp four or flat five could be appropriate, depending on the tune in question.

 

Go to bed. You’re drunk.

 

Mendelssohn's famous Wedding March (from A Midsummer Night's Dream) more or less does this, though it's preceded by a brief trumpet fanfare in the tonic of C major, and the chord is in first inversion as I recall (F#ø7/A in lead sheet notation).

I'd agree, BTW, that the topic phenomenon is on #4, not b5. The difference is relevant since it's typically going to be part of a ii-V-I progression that aims at (tonicizes) iii, and/or a circle of fifths progression that goes #4 > 7 > 3 > 6 > 2 > 5 > 1.

I feel another example bubbling around in my subconscious, but I can't quite produce it. Bossa nova and jazz should be fertile ground (as we've seen), since there are plenty of tunes that start with a half-diminshed seventh.

The chorus of "Calling You" is also a close one: the second half has the circle of fifths progression described above, but the first half takes a different route. And, of course, it's not the start of the song.

 

I know of three others, but I’m not going to tell you.

 

That is a great example!

 

Ok, so you want to play that game, do ya?

 

I am less interested in terminology than in the musical content. I used to get into arguments with jazz guys about "half-diminished" vs. "minor 7 flat five." I always used the former because it is fewer syllables and consequently results in less wear and tear on the vocal chords.

Alec Wilder's excellent American Popular Song 1900-1950 addresses the fact that many melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic devices that we like in tunes are often other artists' embellishments that have stuck. As with my "Stella by Starlight" example, if anyone plays the tune anymore, they start it with the half-diminished or minor 7 flat five, even though that is not how Victor Young wrote it.

 

Hilarious! For this thread and maybe for so many others THIS is the funniest post I have read.

 

I literally have no idea what any of this means.

I used to think I was pretty smart. Guess not.

 

True, but now I at least know what chord he is talking about.

I'd say it's a fairly rare chord to start with, and even rarer to begin a tune with it. I doubt I would have been able to come up with examples.