Songs with the "mixolydian" chord progression

I would like to suggest a book that has been around for 30+ years. It's a strange mix of a beginner's guitar player book and a history of the guitar going deeply (but not too deeply) into the fundamentals of music, scales, modes, etc. It's labeled as a Handbook and indeed it it. It explains the different modes and scales with superb graphics. Place it on your coffee table and guests will pick it up and thumb through it. Who knows, you may even purchase a guitar (or some other instrument, music is music). Strangely enough, your also asking a question that many musicians could not answer! Some of those musicians on album covers.

You might find it cheaper elsewhere, don't know.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679742751/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Minor quibble as a point of clarification: "key signatures" only directly arise from two applications of the Major scale: When the I chord of a Major key is the I chord (which seems painfully obvious, but work with me) or when the vi chord of a Major key is the i chord. These are the so-called Ionian (Major) and Aeolian (minor) modes, but most folks don't view music in these keys as being "modal," per se. But in reality, they are just as modal as any other of the modes than can be derived from a Major scale. All of the remaining modes (dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian and locrian) result in tonal centers where something other than the I chord or vi chord from a Major scale serves as the I or i chord (upper case for chords with a natural 3rd and lower case for those with a b3rd). And these cases where the dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian or locrian scales are used are not in any particular key, but are derived from their parent key signatures.

But I agree wholeheartedly that if you write a chord progression that relies on use of the C mixolydian scale, you should write it in the key signature from which that is derived, which is F Major. Denoting "C mixo" is not a bad idea since confusion can arise, even in the most seemingly obvious situations. For example, many folks will swear up and down that Sweet Home Alabama is in "D" (just plain D) and utilizes a D Mixolydian scale. But in reality, it's in G Major and the chords are V IV I (D C G) in G Major. Ed King (who co-wrote it) has said as much and if you analyze where the music rests, G is the obvious tonal center. But other tunes have this very same chord progression, but the tonal center is D, not G. So in this latter case, the scale used is D mixolydian, but it is not "in G Major," rather it utilizes a D mixolydian scale and is derived from G Major with D as the tonal center.

 

This is an excellent book and should be on the shelf of any aspiring guitarist. Good call, Jon1969.

 

Almost all pop music is in Mixolydian mode.

 

Blues use a minor scale most of the time, not major.

 

I remember seeing sheet music for Sweet Home Alabama when I first started to learn. The key was G but written below the rhythmic notation at the top it said D Mixolydian. Sometimes they do it. I did not know what the heck it meant back then.

 

There are, of course, minor blues, but most blues utilizes a Dom7(#9) as the tonal center.

I'm actually surprised to hear that. Most song books or sheet music for popular rock tunes dumb it down in my experience. So, they'd write it with a key sig of D Major and then litter the chart with C naturals.

 

This is the song I first thought of as a possibility

 

If I put on my "traditional Western harmony" hat, I'd say there are no resolutions in that chord sequence.

That's right.

If I can quibble back at you a bit I'd say that the idea that the modes are derived from the major or minor scales is a relatively modern view point. If you go back to Renaissance music and earlier Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian and Mixolydian were the common modes used and actually Ionian and Aeolian were rather derived from those, if anything. Modes had all kinds of rules of how to use them, which I won't pretend to undertstand, but there's more to a "mode" than just what the tonal center of a diatonic scale is, and that music is really where the mode theory applies. With Baroque and Classical (as in Wien-) the Ionian (major) and Aeolian (minor) eventually totally dominanted and this is also where we started to get the functional harmony centered around the Dominant chord and having cadences of instability that wants to resolve. In earlier music you don't really have that, and the thing is you don't really have those kinds of cadences in most Rock and modern Pop either.

I am one of those that, maybe not "swear", but argue that D is the tonal centre of "Sweet Home Alabama", and I don't think it's obvious which is correct of the two opinions. Ed and Al Kooper (who produced) argued about this right from the start when the song was recorded, and the way I remember the story Al thought that Ed played the solo in the wrong key (the key is really the same, but let's say with the wrong emphasis). Ed actually mostly only plays G major pentatonic, he doen't use the full major scale, which makes a lot of difference, but he is definitely thinking G is the center. I think it sounds awkward at points and when I have played the song I have improvised a solo around D instead, mixing D mixolydian and D minor pentatonic, for a more bluesy sound, works just as well in my opinion. I hate ending the song on G, it sounds super corny to me, but am forced...

Is this a Jazz vs Rock thing we are seeing with this? Most Rock guitar players would primarily use a minor pentatonic scale as the basis when soloing over a major Blues using Dominant 7th chords.

 

No - that's probably wrong. The chord progression C Bflat F C is likely in C mixolydian (note: C mixolydian has the same notes as F Ionian). The reason being is that the first and last chord is a C which indicates that resolution is to C and not to F.

If the progression was F Bflat C F, then you'd have F major / Ionian.

 

Yeah. I can definitely feel in the intro and verses that we start up in the air on D and come to rest at G, but I don't want to end the song on G. It feels wrong. It's much more satisfying to end by repeating the pre-chorus lick and ending on D.

I've also heard about Ed and Al arguing about the solo. The rest of the band backed Ed, not for musical reasons as such, but because the solo had come to him in a dream and they figured that meant it had to be something special.

 

Is Mixolydian right for you? Ask your doctor.

 

Well, you put a great deal on my plate at 1 AM here in Boston, but I'll respond to the best of my ability.

What you say about the early church modes doesn't seem off the mark, but your points aren't really all that relevant to modern pop and other music from the 20th and 21st centuries. The early church modes may have been "of equal importance" (although I'd challenge you to cite an early tune based on the locrian mode), but my point is focused on music from the past 50 years or so.

As to Sweet Home Alabama, let's contrast it with Marshall Tucker's Can't You See?

Sweet home: | D | C | G | G :||

Can't you see: | D | C | G | D :||

See the difference? Sweet Home is clearly V IV I in G Major while Can't You See is clearly utilizing a D mixolydian scale with D as the tonal center. And every resting point in Sweet Home is on G, not on D.

It's not a rock vs. jazz thing. Scales used by jazz or other guitarists have nothing to do with this discussion. That's a completely different discussion.

Of course you end the song on D. That doesn't mean it's the I.

 

Wait - how is Kind of Blue not an example of modal Jazz? So What is the quintessential modal tune I thought

 

Howz'a'bout a little bit of 90's Country?
Would this be considered 'mixolydian'?
Gary Allan - Right Where I Need To Be

 

I actually edited my post about the "equal" bit. Part of my point was that the theory of Renaissance music might fit a lot of modern Pop music better than the later functional harmony theory of major/minor, but generally the harmony theory of Western Music is badly suited for describing and analysing Popular music.

There is no way to "see" a difference by just looking at those chords, they are exactly the same, it doesn't matter what chord a sequence starts or ends on or how long you stay on any specific chord. However when I listen to "Alabama" I think it is ambigous what the tonal center is, this is something peculiar to that song, and I am obviously the only one who feels this way about it since it is a classic example that gets brought up again and again. This doesn't have to do with the chords but with the melodic content used over them. I'll have to listen to the MTB song, I don't remember how it goes.

This started when someone brought up blues. The person you answered stated that Blues (even when major) mainly use the minor (pentatonic) scale.

 

True ofcourse. Let’s just say it is a jam going only on the chords of C Bb F C. Then C would feel like the root. If you change things, like substituting the last C with an F, then sure, F is the root.

 

Yes. And a good example of one that does not start on the root as @StingRay5 pointed out.

 

Soulshine allman brothers band

 

Made me laugh because here in Denmark we call musician who listen to other musicians play “the music police”. And yes, play a natural B in that situation, eyebrows will surely ne raised

 

So are you telling me that if your band is vamping in C Bb F C, then you will be feeling the F to be the root? Or Dm as you suggest because it’s all the same?

You know, ofcourse a case can be made that it’s the same 7 notes so it doesn’t matter. But i tell you what. Try playing a good solo over that in E locrian mode and tell me you can make that sound as appropriate as C mixo.

I for sure cannot pull that trick off. The feel of the root matters in music, even if the seven modes are technically the same notes.

 

Ofcourse that is true.

BUT the next time we end up in a jam over ||: C | Bb | F | C :||, then you solo in E locrian, and i’ll solo in C mixolydian. Deal?

;-)

 

Petrushka, basically.

 

That one needs explanation for a Dane.

 

Ah--I'm half asleep (it's 5 a.m. here) and read you as saying C mixolydian and E lydian as a joke.

That would give you the stereotypical Petrushka sound--lots of minor seconds.