Sonic advantages of a music server over a laptop?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Bachtoven, Jun 26, 2022.

  1. Oddiofyl

    Oddiofyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    I have a Bluesound Vault 2i... it has served me well. I sometimes use my Laptop PC and feed my DAC it's USB and it sounds pretty good but the noise of it's fan is distracting at lower volumes. The Vault can't be heard from my seat . I am thinking about a replacement for the Vault but not sure what.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
    Tim 2 likes this.
  2. Calvin_and_Hobbes

    Calvin_and_Hobbes Music Lover

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Yes, I started off using an iPhone and a PC laptop in 2020 during COVID. Switching to an $800 Pro-ject Stream Box S2 Ultra dedicated streamer after 6 months later in 2020 made an immediately noticeable improvement in sound quality. What I heard was:
    • Better resolution of complex musical passages
    • Tonal colors are more evident
    • Notes seem to hang in the air longer. Reverberations continue instead of being cut off.
    • More presence around voices and instruments.
    • Greater sense of calm around music that is calm in nature. (Perhaps, less edgy in sound quality)
    I got the Pro-ject because I had read that the Pro-ject sounded better than the Bluesound Node and just decided to start with the Pro-ject for my evaluation of the value of a dedicated streamer for improving sound quality. FWIW, I've compared the Pro-ject to a $7.5k Naim NDX 2 used as streamer into my Denafrips Pontus DAC and heard no difference in sound quality that was evident to me. At some point in time, I might listen to some more expensive streamers to see if that makes any difference compared to my Pro-ject streamer.

    I've got a whole list of low cost improvements that each have improved the sound quality of the Pro-ject streamer. Let me know if you want me to post that list of changes that resulted in noticeable improvement in SQ.

    On a related note, there are other improvements to your digital signal path that might make a bigger difference than getting the $3,200 Aurender versus a cheaper streamer. Switching out the power cord on your DAC can result in quite noticeable improvements in sound quality for not much money spent.
    • Going from a $15 Tripp-Lite Heavy Duty power cord from Home Depot to a $135 Shunyata Venom V14 power cord on my Denafrips Pontus DAC made a noticeable improvement along the same lines as did switching to the Pro-ject streamer.
    • Switching to a $91 Supra LoRad (Low Radiation) power cord (SUPRA LoRad 3x2.5 Power Cable 1-meter HI FI CHOICE RECOMMENDED Made in Sweden! 7330060205439 | eBay ) seems to produce even greater improvements than when I switched to the Shunyata Venom V14 power cord.
    • In terms of the maginitude of improvements, I recently listened to a $14.5k dcs Bartok to get a sense of how spending more money on my digital source might result in better sound quality than my Pro-ject Stream Box/Denafrips Pontus II DAC combination costing about $2500 total. The character of music being played by the dcs Bartok was somewhat different that the presentation from the Pro-ject/Denafrips, but it's still unclear to me as to whether the dcs Bartok sounds better than the Pro-ject/Denafrips and I think I actually prefer the sound quality from the Pro-ject/Denafrips combination better. When I plugged in the $91 Supra LoRad power cord, the improvement in great background clarity and the same type of improvements that a dedicated streamer produced were immediately evident to me even compared to the $135 Shunyata Venom V14 power cord which already was pretty decent in sound quality.
    • Improvements to how clean your power is another area that MIGHT make a difference in sound quality. A friend just loaned me a PS Audio Stellar P owerplant 3 power regenerator that is supposed to clean up the power from the AC outlet. We'll see if that make any noticeable difference.
      • "Power Plants generate sine-wave-perfect, regulated, high current AC power from your home’s AC. Problems on your power line such as low voltage, distorted waveforms, sagging power, and noise are eliminated and the power quality enhanced."
    My understanding of the reason why a dedicated streamer, some power cords, & power improvements improve digital sound is that those components either minimize the amount of RFI/EMI generated or reduce the amount of RFI/EMI piggybacking on your AC power.

    Here's a more detailed explanation from an electrical engineer that designs audio equipment

    https://the-hifi-podcast-with-darre...m/episodes/radio-frequency-the-800mhz-gorilla
    (Discussion of this topic starts at 80 minutes into the podcast, so you can skip the upfront banter)

    Here's an excerpt of the podcast:

    If you have an engineering degree and you're hearing this and you're shaking your head and you're saying this is nonsense, my response to you is that you're logical. Based on what you have learned, I completely understand your response, but unfortunately, the way that power cables operate is not the way that we were taught in electrical engineering necessarily.

    Power cables were always thought of as series devices. If we add this 2 meter power cable to 2 miles of powerline, why does this 2 meter power cable make a difference?

    The power cable is not necessarily a series element of a system. The parallel elements [of a power cable] and way they interact with RF in the room in a common mode sense to ground is incredibly important. [Meaning in parallel to ground]​
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
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  3. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Depending on the ability of the rest of your system to reveal the difference, the Aurender ought to be quite a bit better than the Blue Sound Node or iFi Zen Stream.

    That said, I wouldn’t invest in an Aurender unless the rest of your system reaches a certain level. Speakers are a bigger bang for the buck investment, followed by amplification.

    At a certain point of transparency, a computer is revealed as being an inadequate solution. But adding, for example, a $4000 Aurender to a $2000 system is putting the cart before the horse.

    Upscale Audio currently has some great deals on discontinued Aurender models.
     
    Calvin_and_Hobbes likes this.
  4. Bachtoven

    Bachtoven Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    It's more than up to such a task:

    B&W 803D3 speakers
    McIntosh MA9000 integrated amp
    Esoteric K-03 SACD player
    Chord Qutest DAC
    VPI Prime Signature turntable/Ortofon Cadenza Bronze cartridge
    Sennheiser HD800s, Audeze LCD-X headphones
     
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  5. hronists

    hronists Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Pole
    Rapsberry Pi with whatever DAC HAT you choose, install Volumio, add hard disk or NAS and you're set for 3-500$/£/€. On Volumio you can also stream gazillions of internet radio stations, run Tidal or Spotify.
     
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  6. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
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  7. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    Ok, in the context of that system I can see how a high-end streamer would be very attractive. Close to $4k seems excessive, though. You might look at the line of streamers available from Matrix Audio. Very well made, sharp looking, and good reviews.

    Consider redeploying your laptop as a server and running Roon Audio. It's not free, but pretty much SOTA performance and user experience. If you need more storage, an external USB drive or NAS is the solution. Finally, have an off-site backup plan.
     
    ubiknik likes this.
  8. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    Nice. My set-up is very similar. Drawback is JRiver is not really compatible to the major streaming services. But with a couple TB's of music on my local drives, there's always something to listen to.
     
    CatManDude likes this.
  9. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    What would that be?
     
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  10. CatManDude

    CatManDude Forum Existent

    Location:
    Connecticut, USA
    Totally agree that JRiver is not streaming friendly, which is why I think a lot of folks avoid it. I rarely stream, and when I do, I just switch apps on the PC. Would definitely be nice to have a single integrated experience though.
     
    Boltman92124 likes this.
  11. Oddiofyl

    Oddiofyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    Absolutely that system is deserving of a serious DAC….
     
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  12. Bachtoven

    Bachtoven Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    US
    I'm perfectly happy with my DAC.
     
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  13. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    No differences at all actually if you use a USB isolator.

    i much preferred the sound of my laptop with USB isolator over the Bluesound.

    IMHO of course
     
    Calvin_and_Hobbes likes this.
  14. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    Concepts like “a serious DAC” or ranking DACs based on the idea that a steep audiophile price will deliver better sound quality than current state-of-the-art DACs in the $250-$300 range seem like outdated thinking.
     
    shadowhillway likes this.
  15. cdash99

    cdash99 Senior Member

    Location:
    Mass
    As others have mentioned, a Bluesound Node accessing a Synology server does the trick.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  16. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Location:
    London
  17. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Location:
    London
    Having tried many, many DACs extensively, I disagree. I adore my Chord Mojo, but it was easily bettered for more outlay.
     
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  18. Calvin_and_Hobbes

    Calvin_and_Hobbes Music Lover

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    My impressions having listened to a range of DACs in 2020 and the $14.5k dcs Bartok recently is that it depends. My impression of some more expensive DACS was not favorable at all but the Denafrips Pontus II clearly sounded better to me than some less expensive DACs:

    DACs I heard in 2020:
    1. Audioquest Dragonfly Red
    2. Rega DAC
    3. Denafrips Ares II
    4. Simaudio Moon 280D
    5. Chord Qutest
    6. Denafrips Pontus II
    7. Chord Hugo TT / MScaler
    8. Schiit Yggdrasil

    I had gone to audition the dcs Bartok and plan to audition other more expensive DACs to see if there is any room to improve sound quality over my current DAC. One perspective is that different DACs have different sound signatures beyond a linear progression of good, better, best. These were my impressions of the dcs Bartok compared to my $800 Pro-ject Stream Box streamer + $1700 Denafrips Pontus II DAC:

    The dcs Bartok emphasizes the primary components of music, while the Pontus has a more balanced presentation of the components of music. When listening to jazz, the Pontus seems to be actually better at resolving interactions in music with complex rhythms. As a result, the dcs Bartok seemed to be less good than the Pontus at conveying Pace, Rhythm and Timing. The sound from the dcs Bartok seemed to feel less playful and agile than that from the Pontus

    Compared to the Pontus, my impressions are that the dcs Bartok is perhaps the better "audiophile" product, but the Pontus has a sense of natural engagement and flow that perhaps even the Bartok is surprisingly unable to match.​
     
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  19. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I have an early 2014 Mac Mini fed by an external hard drive. I run it headless and control it via Chrome Remote Desktop on my laptop.
     
  20. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    I mean, in what way would using a laptop for other purposes compromise its sound quality?
     
  21. Calvin_and_Hobbes

    Calvin_and_Hobbes Music Lover

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    General purpose computing devices such as laptops are not designed to minimize the amount of EMI & RFI that they create. Dedicated streamers are.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  22. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    That wasn't the comparison. It was between a dedicated laptop and a laptop that one uses for other functions as well.
     
  23. oldguy

    oldguy New Member

    Location:
    St Paul, MN
    I have a decent if not SOTA system. Going from a dedicated MacMini on an isolation stand to a "Small Green Computer" server package with a sonic transpoter I5, ultra rendu and dedicated power supply was one of the biggest bang for buck upgrades in my 50+ years of being an audio nut. Less than $2K at last count. All it does is audio, but it does it well. Well worth looking into, IMO.
     
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  24. cdash99

    cdash99 Senior Member

    Location:
    Mass
    Prior to my switching, I encountered a number of dropouts and other similar issues when performing other tasks while streaming (working; browsing etc.) Just as we're not effective when we multi task, same goes for the laptop/desktop.
     
  25. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Great system! Certainly give the Aurender a home audition. I think you’ll be surprised at how good it sounds compared to a computer. Will be interesting to see how the Aurender compares to your Esoteric SACD for sound quality. But your system as at such a great level that cheap options like a BkueSound or IFi will likely be disappointing.

    Please report back on your Aurender audition. I have one in the crosshairs as well.
     
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