Sonny Rollins' Newk's Time-Mastering Adventures with Steve Hoffman & Kevin Gray

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Joe Harley, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Senior Member Thread Starter

    Hi gang,

    Tonight I'm sitting here listening to the test pressings of Sonny Rollin's amazing Newk's Time session. I'm blissed out....and here's why!

    From the inception of Music Matters' Blue Note project, there have been a handful of sessions that we (Ron and I) dearly love but that apparently had master tape problems of one kind or another that made the prospect of being able to release them seem remote indeed.

    One of these sessions was Sonny Rollin's amazing "Newk's Time". We had been told by various folks (including Michael Cuscuna) that the masters "had problems" and that it would be better to move on to other great Rolllins titles on Blue Note. We did that (you'll see Sonny's great Vol. 1 from us soon and Acoustic Sounds has released Vol. 2) but Newk’s Time has always been a favorite.

    A few weeks before our last Blue Note mastering marathon at Acoustech in June, Ron and I decided to go ahead and request Newks' Time, despite all the warnings.

    The session comes, and sure enough, there on the Newks’ Time masters are dire looking warnings about “severe tape drop outs” all over the outer box and inner notes. Most of the fuss seemed to revolve around drops out on the first track “Tune Up”.

    Undaunted, Kevin went ahead and carefully spooled the tape up so we could have a listen and settle in to our battle plan.

    The first thing that struck us all…well the first two things really…were how great Sonny sounded and how great the overall sound was. Sonny was in full flight, I was getting totally stoked and then it happened…. the dreaded “drop out”! I said “wait a minute!” but Steve was already on to it… “THAT’S no drop out!” He was right, this was clearly Rudy making a fairly radical fader move. Tape drop outs are obvious and have their own “sound”. This was not a drop out.

    We had been noticing (and commenting) on the fact that Sonny was moving in the stereo image. Then I started laughing since it was so obvious….Sonny was WALKING around the studio (the Hackensack living room) and Rudy was doing whatever he could, using his faders, to keep up with Sonny.
    Anyone who has been to a Sonny Rollins concert knows that he is not a stationary player. I had vague memories of reading of Sonny’s recording adventures with Rudy, of Sonny’s desire not to be chained to a microphone.
    It probably sounds like a small matter to most, but for Ron and myself, this was one of those Eureka Moments where everything suddenly makes sense.
    We put up “Tune Up” again as Steve began to zero in on other things that the track needed.

    The rest of the tracks were fine…..no “severe drop out” issues at all! Yes, you do hear things shifting around a bit as Sonny walks around, playing his tail off, but hey, that’s what the man does…he needs to MOVE to play his absolute best!

    There’s an amazing track on this album that will take up all of Side C on our release….Philly Joe Jones and Sonny on an amazing duo work out on “Surrey With The Fringe On Top”. I wish I had a camera to capture Steve hanging on for dear life with the faders trying to “walk” with Sonny and keep him present. He succeeded but needed a towel to dry off afterwards!
    Thanks Steve! Thanks Kev! And THANK YOU SONNY!

    Cheers, :cheers:

    Joe and Ron
     
  2. hatfield

    hatfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wilton, CT, USA
    It doesn't sound like a small matter to me. I love hearing stories like this! Thanks for sharing it.

    Since Michael and others thought the master tapes had drop outs, I wonder if this is the reason why the original U.S. CD has Yoshio Okazaki listed for doing the digital transfer and not Ron McMaster. I'm guessing he was based in Japan and maybe the thinking was that a copy existed in Japan so he did the mastering on this title? Just a guess. I think he is also credited on the U.S. CD of Horace Silver's Horace Scope.
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  3. dosjam

    dosjam Forum Resident

    Location:
    seattle
    This is a great album. Looking forward to the 45. Viva Sonny!
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Being in the studio with Joe and Ron is an intense experience. Usually Kevin and I go it alone but when Blue Note experts like the Music Matters Boys are there it's like a bolt of extra energy hits the place. It's great.

    Funny, I never heard the Sonny album in stereo but it was so obvious to all of us in the studio from the first few seconds of listening that engineer Rudy Van Gelder was doing some radical fader moves to keep this guy on mike, ANY MIKE. No dropouts on the master tape at all. Silly for anyone to even write that on the tape boxes in the first place. In mono you wouldn't even notice any of this but with this full stereo soundstage it's very obvious. No tape damage, just Rovin' Sonny damage (which is fine with me; whatever it takes to get his musical thoughts down on wax).

    Our end result was pleasing to me and I guess judging from Joe's post, pleasing to him and Ron as well. This is good because Sonny Rollins is just playing his butt off on this album and now you get to hear him in pristine form.

    I'm glad we can present it to you in true wide stereo; it's gorgeous!
     
    mktracy, kt66brooklyn, nosliw and 5 others like this.
  5. pig whisperer

    pig whisperer CD Member

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I wonder why Michael Cuscuna would think these were drop outs. Isn't this fade present on the original vinyl? Was there also a mono release? Do both the mono and stereo have these fader adjustments (if a mono and stereo recorded was being run at the same time)?
     
  6. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam

    I guess that there is no chance of a CD or an SACD of this title?
     
  7. bluesbro

    bluesbro Forum Hall of Shame

    Location:
    DC
    I hope there is.

    Newks Time is Sonny's best studio album for Blue Note. 'Surrey' is my favorite track on that album.
     
  8. johnny33

    johnny33 New Member

    Location:
    usa
    I missed this thread. Great story Joe! Out to Lunch, The Sidewinder and now this one. Guess it goes to show you- don't despair :cool:
     
  9. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Wouldn't anyone please tell me how the players stand in the stereo picture? I have only monaural copy of NT in my hands.
     
  10. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident

    Rollins is one of those players that can't stand still.

    He opts for a clip on mic during concerts which isn't terribly unusual for a
    many Sax players. With Sonny he is up and down and all around.

    Loved watching him play. The man knows how to wail.
     
    McLover and Tommyboy like this.
  11. Davidmk5

    Davidmk5 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Marlboro , ma. usa
    I sure hope so ......


    But what a great story , thanks for sharing this & giving it a go .......very cool to hear the tape is in good shape :righton:
     
  12. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    Alfred Lion has ever released only mono lp. The stereo vinyl came out first in the Liberty era IIRC.

    As for drop out, some who bought the 45rpm claim like this.
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  13. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Thanks for the post Joe. Great album + great reissue label + great engineers = worthy story.
     
  14. yasujiro

    yasujiro Senior Member

    Location:
    tokyo
    :help: Anyone?
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  15. porcupine71

    porcupine71 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lisle, IL USA
    So after reading this, does this also explain why the cymbals cut in and out sometimes during the recording? That's what was most noticeable to me.
     
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  16. Just listened to this last weekend. Why didn't Rudy just leave the faders/mics up? It certainly would have sounded better than trying to "chase" Sonny. Great album - but kind of a head-scratcher from an engineering point of view.
     
  17. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Thread revival. The lore of this album is indeed interesting.

    There's a conversation going on at London Jazz Collector right now about the stereo version of this album (https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/2015/06/21/sonny-rollins-4001-newks-time-goes-stereo/), and based on the needle drop of "Tune Up" there, which is from the stereo Liberty pressing, I have no idea what all the commotion is about regarding all this 'movement' of Sonny's during the take. I would suspect that his position in the stereo field would shift as well as his relative volume in the mix if he was moving around, yet in this clip he sounds very centered and even volume-wise for the entire duration of the song. Go ahead over to LJC and listen for yourself. What do you think?
     
  18. hbbfam

    hbbfam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chandler,AZ
    So is this one in the works for an SACD release?
     
  19. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Steve,

    Threads like this I love. I love hearing about your experiences mastering my favorite music. I hope to have a better cartridge to do this classic justice soon, and a copy of this 45 RPM set in my pride of place.
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Reopened by special request.
     
  21. Jasonbraswell

    Jasonbraswell Vinylphile

    Location:
    Guntersville
    Thanks Steve.

    Adding Bernie's interview describing his tape edits at 8 min mark. This tape sounds like it has led an interesting life.

    Also does anyone know why RVG never was in the BST runouts?

    Fascinating stuff. Thanks again!

     
    SideShowRobb likes this.
  22. danasgoodstuff

    danasgoodstuff Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    A possible BN Classic?
     
  23. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    This album is one of many examples of a late '50s Blue Note album that wasn't released in (true) stereo until the late '60s/early '70s despite being recorded to full-track and two-track tape. A few other examples off the top of my head are Bass on Top, Candy, Sonny's Crib, and Cool Struttin. Many of these albums were reissued multiple times through the '60s and always used the original mono RVG metalwork.

    More info here: Blue Note Records: A Collector’s Guide to Mono & Stereo | Deep Groove Mono
     
  24. Jasonbraswell

    Jasonbraswell Vinylphile

    Location:
    Guntersville
    Would be fantastic, especially a mono.
    Yeah I was just pointing out RVG is not in the runouts on the first BST release. Didn't look at every following BST... Just seemed odd. Maybe a nothing burger.


    Fantastic database BTW. Love the work going in to the site.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
    kt66brooklyn likes this.
  25. Jasonbraswell

    Jasonbraswell Vinylphile

    Location:
    Guntersville
    Finally got a BST copy (1966).
    Very decent price too.

    Sounds amazing.

    The opening track has a little of Sonny moving around as stated above. It's almost harmless to the recording. The experts above are correct. The recording is beautiful.:cool:


    Sax, percussion, piano on left

    Bass on right


    Cheers.
    [​IMG]
     

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