Sony UBP-x1000es universal player review -- upgrade/comparison to my Sony UHP-H1

Haven't found a lot of time to audition the music via analog out much yet -- but in the next couple of days I should have some time.

I am going to compare the DAC in the x1000es versus the DAC in the UHP-H1 - of course the comparison will be subjective and no measurements!

I am also going to compare the DAC (analog out) in the x1000es vs the DAC in my Denon 7200WA AVR (with HDMI out) --- the Denon x7200wa is a flagship Denon AVR, and has an AK 4490 DAC, which is reputed to be quite good... I know I have been satisfied with it and actually thought it sounded better than the DAC / analog out in the UHP-H1!!. That will be an interesting comparison...

 

I have a similar

I have a similar set up as you. Except my preamp doesn’t have a home theater bypass. Instead, I simply route a preout signal fr the preamp to a home theater receiver to provide center, subs, and surrounds. HDMI is fr the player to the receiver. The players analog out goes to the preamp. Sounds odd but I’ve been doing it for years. No problem setting levels at all. I like this because it keeps the stereo signal totally unprocessed and pure. I also have an Essence HDMI DAC that gives added flexibility.

 

Will the unit play gapless multi-channel FLAC files on thumb drive connected the unit's front usb port?

 

Sorry. I don’t know. I’m an old school disc only guy.

 

Same here -- just discs with this unit for my use -- I saw this question asked about the UHP-H1 on an earlier thread here when that came out, and I think the answer was "No". Not sure about the x100es though....

Maybe some else with experience on FLAC files will chime in....

 

There is a crude workaround to kill the HDMI audio. In the menu go to HDMI audio and set the output to the HDMI output you aren’t using, not AUTO. In your case, set it to HDMI 1. IIRC, the analogs can’t be shut off at all.
I tried it once on mine and it works, but it’s such a PITA turning on the TV to make the switch.

 

I’ll check that out. Thanks

 

Just to clarify - you are saying that as an option, every time I want to play a CD, go turn off the HDMI audio out to the AVR, then turn it back on when done?

I don't want to "kill" the HDMI permanently (I use it for bluray / surround) ----- but I think you are saying as needed turn it off.

What is the difference between doing that, and just turning of my AVR like I mentioned above? With the HDMI configured to off as you suggested, are you saying the benefit is it won't be sending any signal down the HDMI line, like it probably still is when I just turn the AVR off??

 

As mentioned earlier, I needed to audition the music / CD performance of the x1000es further... spent a little time on it the last couple of days. My objective was to audition / compare the CD performance on both the HDMI and analog out.

• For analog out the x1000es is feeding a Parasound P5 ---> Parasound A21 ---> Yamaha NS-2000 speakers. The x1000es has a Sony DAC of unknown brand / model.
  
• For HDMI out the x1000es is feeding a Denon x7200WA (AK 4490 DAC) ---> P5 ---> A21 ---> NS-2000

Note as seen above - since the main speakers are shared between home theater and 2 channel listening via the P5 with home theater bypass, both the analog out and HDMI signals ultimately pass through the P5 preamp.

Preliminary findings are interesting. Note that the Denon x7200WA has a AK 4490 DAC ---- which is a fairly good DAC. For example, it is the same DAC that is in the Pioneer LX500 universal player that is getting so many positive reviews. So in essence if I use HDMI out, I am using a pretty good DAC in the signal path. Note I still have not found out what specific brand / model DAC is in the Sony at this point --- as mentioned earlier it is probably a Sony proprietary DAC.

But after listening to three CD's on both the analog out using the Sony DAC and HDMI using the AK 4490 DAC in the Denon..... guess what.... I am so far giving a slight edge to the HDMI out. It's too early to make a final verdict --- I only played two CD's, one rock and one Jazz and one vocals. It's not night and day difference, it is subtle but I am feeling like the HDMI out has more depth, dynamics where the Sony has good detail but is focused more on the highs.

More to come, but if one of my requirements was to have a good DAC in the universal player of choice, so far I am verifying that the DAC in my Denon is pretty good. But also realize the Sony is still breaking in too.... if you believe in break in!! I was hoping for better CD performance out of my universal player analog path than what i was getting out of my HDMI path.......

 

You don’t have to shut it off each time you play a CD. You asked if there was an option to shut off the HDMI. That’s the only way to do it.
I didn’t notice any difference through the analogs when I disabled the HDMI but YMMV depending on your ears. It doesn’t turn off any video circuitry, it just routs the audio to whatever HDMI port you want.
And no, it doesn’t kill anything permanantly.

 

Great, thanks for that! Will keep that feature in mind.

 

I also hear the X1000ES as being a little focused on the highs. It isn’t terrible and isn’t night and day different from my other disc spinners, but was noticeable upon focused listening and I felt it was worth mentioning since there are now two of us that agree with the sound profile of this player.

 

I'd like to thank the OP @TheVinylAddict for this thread. I have a Sony UHP_H1 and have been casually looking for a replacement. The X1000ES was in the "possibles" but having read this thread and reviews & articles elsewhere on the web, I've more or less concluded there will be relatively small differences in terms of audio quality. For me, the UHP-H1 tends towards sounding a touch "splashy" (i.e. highs are quite forward) and this is where tone controls are so useful.

The Oppos passed me by and I can only hope that they find a way back, even if that's under a different label. In the meantime, I'll keep looking but I won't be bounced into one of those "buy quickly, regret forever" purchases.

 

It would be very interesting if a company stepped in and emulated Oppo's business model with players and service to match.

When you say "buy quickly, regret forever" is that in regard to current universal players available or looking at used players? If you research what would be the best player for your needs (new or used) and look for the best pricing you should be fine. Buying new from a reputable dealer with at least a 30 day return policy removes quite a bit of concern. Buying used is different of course but focusing on players with high reliability ratings and buying from sellers with positive feedback is helpful. One can save quite a bit when buying used over new. I've been fortunate as far as buying used players. Only one player that I bought over the years had issues (Denon). The seller refunded my payment and I returned the player. Good luck !

 

@RockAddict - Thanks for the kind words!

FYI - I have a couple of updates you might want to stay tuned for - I'll try to get them in today. The first one is related to when I did my brief preliminary auditioning on CD -- I had a setup issue I overlooked on my analog side, and when I addressed it, I am now hearing the analog out on the Sony is better for my ears than the HDMI path through the AK 4490 DAC in the Denon AVR.

The second update has to do with an unfortunate issue I am having on bluray side --- I will update later with more details. A little busy this morning.

EDIT : one more thing, you know how it is though, what works well in one person's system doesn't always scale to others --- I hope you get the same results I have!

 

On this point --- I looked long and hard at Oppo 105 and 105D. Of course I wanted an Oppo, who wouldn't. I don't want the newer Oppo 2xx generation due to both price and the fact they lost the streaming apps like Netflix and Amazon Prime, etc which I use frequently. (anyone about to tell me there are other ways to get those services, yes , I realize that).

I buy a lot of used gear, in this hobby and others.... especially in astronomy and woodworking hand tools. Great way to save some cash. But one thing I always have trouble pulling the trigger on is used disc players --- anything that plays a disc. If only a couple of years old, no biggie. But the Oppo 105 is now a seven year old platform, with the kicker the company is now out of business.

That is one thing that was attractive about this x1000es - Sony thinks enough of it to give it a 3 year warranty. The UHP-H1 was a one year warranty. Most others are one year. That was a factor.....

 

Cool, this is making me feel better after the depressing "Samsung exits the disc player market" thread. I may check this player out today if Best Buy has one.

 

@bhazen - I own the Samsung 8500 bluray in a second HT setup (wife, sons' setup) - and it is a solid unit. It was their flagship for a while, and Bluray-wise on par with the UHP-H1 but the UHP had more features, DAC, SACD, etc. I bought my 8500 when they were on price drop at Costco a couple years back for $159.

Best Buy does have the x1000es... its where I bought mine, but of course can't guarantee that they have them in your area.

 

Thanks for the observations and sharing your thoughts!

One thing to note -- the post above where I did a first pass comparison --- IGNORE that post --- I found a setup issue on the analog / preamp side that was impacting SQ, which is now fixed!

Interestingly, to sum up what I was finding --- the Sony x1000es using its internal DAC and analog out is the better sounding compared to using the HDMI out to my Denon x7200wa and its AK 4490 DAC! I personally think the AK 4490 DAC might be better than what is in the x1000es (could be wrong) --- but the fact the Denon is an AVR.......... well, most of us know AVRs can be bettered for SQ by standalone preamps. Note the analog out on the X1000es I have is going to a Parasound P5 preamp and not to the Denon. One interesting parallel to the AK 4490 DAC – it is the same one Pioneer is using in the “new” LX500 universal player.

More details for those that like that sort of thing --- note my findings are not scientific and didn’t employ any equipment and don’t offer any measurement --- but did employ blind testing using my wife and son multiple times, and their answers were near 100% consistent on everything I tried. It was easy to change source with only a split second delay, so A/B testing was near instantaneous on the same song playing.

Background -- System Configuration:

• Source 1: Sony x1000es internal DAC using analog out (Blue Jeans LC-1) ---> Parasound P5 (Mogami XLR)--> Parasound A21 (Belden 5000UE 12AWG) --> Yamaha NS-2000 (Belden 5000UE 12AWG)
• Source 2: Sony x100es HDMI Out (Bluerigger HDMI) --> Denon x7200WA w/ AK 4490 DAC (BJ LC-1 preout) ---> Parasound P5 (Mogami XLR) --> Parasound A21 (Mogami XLR) --> Yamaha NS-2000 (Belden 5000UE 12AWG)

Test Method / Parameters:

• Non scientific, no measurements or measuring equipment
• Utilize "blind A/B testing" using four sets of ears including my own (wife, two sons')
• Switching is near instantaneous while the same source is playing -- just switching between the P5 and AVR to near instantly change source for sound (AVR or P5 preamp)- but it's the same CD source

Music:

• Many different CD's (over 10 in total) across Jazz, Classical, Vocals, Classic Rock, Folk, Hard Rock, and more.

Findings / Results:
Nearly 100% of the time, the blind testers picked the same result / preference. To cut right to it, I am happy to report that the Sony x1000es over analog won out, and although it was not a "blew me away" situation, the difference was noticeable across the board. No matter the genre, the Sony x100es using the internal DAC and analog cables beat the Denon x7200WA with an AK4490 DAC.

The analog section was just fuller, better separation, more dynamics, cleaner, more bottom --- pretty much everything. It just sounded better to everyone who listened.

Overall Music Quality:
As an overall assessment of the sound quality of the Sony x1000es on MY system, and the overall assessment of my initial requirement of finding a universal player with good analog out capabilities for CD ---- well, I am still not 100% sold but it is a solid player overall! Although it sounds good, and the analog out sounds better / cleaner than the HDMI out feeding an AVR with an AK 4490 DAC --- let's just say I am left wondering what other options might yield. Bottom line --- pretty good, but the jury is still out whether it makes the cut long term as my CD source of choice!

As a "compared to what" litmus -- I can put Dave Brubeck early 60's LP Columbia pressing of "Time Out" on my PL-70Lii turntable, and put the CD in my Sony x1000es, and no surprise but the LP sounds better. Now, I am not trying to find a sub-$1000 universal player that BEATS my analog TT setup (it probably doesn't exist) but I am left wondering if something like the Pioneer LX500 would close the gap more...

Conclusion
The Sony X1000es is a fine bluray/universal player, great picture on DVD, bluray --- it also offers streaming through various sources, and I was pleasantly surprised by the Netflix and Amazon Prime picture quality. In ALL cases, picture quality is a step up from the Sony UHP-H1 universal player I had before this, and better than the other 6 or 7 bluray players of varying quality scattered throughout the house --- including the Samsung UBD-8500.

For music over it's internal DAC analog out, I think overall it is a good player --- not great but for most probably more than enough. Us overly discerning audiophiles are the minority and represent a small percentage of the people buying players like the Sony.

Now I am wondering how the Pioneer LX500 (and its AK 4490 DAC) would stack up both sonically and bluray picture-wise against this Sony player. Their retail prices were $300 apart, and now $500 apart after the $200 price drop for the Sony. I guess that means the Pioneer must be twice as good as the Sony, right? I mean that's how it works in the audio world right? (multiple emogees intentional because there is always that one or two that miss the sarcasm).

Cheers.

 

What is the product lifecycle for players these days? In other words, how long can I wait to buy one 'til I'm out of luck? ...

 

With the $200 price drop, you might want to start asking yourself if it's already upon us or real close!

Also realize that the $200 price drop was resultant of the x1000es not being a big seller at $700 --- the $299 (and now $229) x800 was stealing all its sales as it hit the sweet spot for most who didn't need analog out, SACD, etc.

But again --- these price drops --- and the fact the product lifecycle for Sony players is typically relatively short --- is the end already near????

 

Good points. I'll go look at one this week.

 

The X800 does SACD and DVD Audio

 

Yeah I knew that.... typo / senior moment. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

The X800 is reported as being refreshed with new features, with a new model coming soon. I don't know if that means a new X1000 is coming too or not? That is reassuring that they aren't going anywhere. But, it might also mean these current players might be around too much longer. Buy while you can.