Sound Artist LS3/5A speakers aren't too bad (but there's a catch or two)

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Agitater, Sep 9, 2020.

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  1. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    No
    No just grab it at the top with your fingertips and pull, no problem and they go back on just fine.
    Just got mine out of the box and they are chunky little suckers. No rattles except the connector on the back that can rattle some of loose. So far so good, it will be next week before I can listen to them as I had them delivered to the fam farm .
     
  2. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Hi Manimal,

    I don't mean the speaker covers, which I agree remove with some pressure, but the front baffle holding the speaker units.

    Thx,

    M
     
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  3. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    Ah! Sorry:)
     
  4. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    If that is all you want why not spend $150 on a pair of Wharfedale Diamonds? Probably outperform a fake LS3/5A. I've Seen the Diamond 220 compared to small Harbeth in sound.
     
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  5. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    The SA are far better than my W. Diamonds as nearfield monitors.
     
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  6. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    Nah I like the fake LS3/5As
    I like different stuff and after unboxing them today I’m pretty satisfied with the look and feel. They should go nice with my vintage tube integrated I have in the bedroom.
     
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  7. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto
    By “update it” I assume you mean upend it.

    The most obvious rattle point in the speaker is caused by a loose plastic screw-down on the rear speaker connectors. Check those fist. Tighten them by turning clockwise. If they’re already tight, check the driver mounting screws next, as follows.

    Remove the from the grill by pulling it out from the bottom edge. There might be some resistance but it is only velcro. Put the grill aside in a safe place.

    Lay the speaker on its back, being careful to hang the cable connectors over the edge of a counter or tabletop to avoid putting pressure on them or on the back panel.

    Check each of the screws holding the drivers in place. They should all be snug, not heavily torqued down. You may find one is loose. If so, check the tightness of adjacent screws and then tighten the loose one the same amount. If all of the driver screws are all snug, that’s not where the rattling is originating. Check inside the speaker cabinet, as follows:

    With the speaker still lying on its back, undo the eight philips-head screws on the perimeter of the front baffle. All eight screws are located along the velcro strips. Remove the eight screws and put them aside in a cup. Note the only moderate amount of torque needed to loosen and remove the screws.

    Do not remove any other screws.

    Carefully stand the speaker on its bottom. Place your left hand across the middle of the front baffle while keeping your fingers off the woofer cone, then tilt the speaker forward slightly - just enough to start the front baffle falling forward. Be careful - the wire connecting the crossover to the rear speaker connectors is not very long. Find out what’s rattling, remove it if it’s a errant screw or a bit of solder or an extra part left inside by the factory.

    Fit the baffle back into the cabinet and gently place the speaker on its back again, being careful to hang the rear connectors over the edge of the table or countertop. Resecure all eight screws using moderate torque only when snugging them down - the same snugness that you found when you removed them. That’s it. Happy hunting.
     
  8. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Quite right ;-)

    Thank you for the explicit instructions, very helpful.

    M
     
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  9. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Like you I am quite taken with them, although i have no experience with pukka LS3/5a.

    Next week I am going over to a local dealer to have a play in his new listening room. I am going to take the SAs with me and hope to compare them to the Harbeth ps3er, another speaker I have never heard.

    I did think about buying a 2nd hand pair of Graham LS3/5 for £1k, but as they were for a small nearfield secondary system I was happier spending the £500 for these. Who knows, it may be the start of a whole new journey.

    M
     
  10. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US

    the Sound artist is at the end of video with their impressions
     
  11. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Hi Agitator,

    Let me say again what an excellent review you produced. From my POV I am not at all disappointed with the Sound Artist. I wanted something that was better than the Wharfedale Diamonds that I was using, and these are streets ahead in every area, although I did enjoy the Diamonds.

    As my usage was for nearfield use in my office I was definitely looking to buy to a budget. I was weighing up spending more than I wanted on a pair of Grahams LS3/5, for £990. At half the price these were far more to my taste!

    I accept that these are NOT LS3/5a, and didn't expect top class construction.

    Hugo TT > Naim 140 > SA LS3/5a

    With the boxes I have reread your review and lined up the suggested music, thanks for your picks, never heard Rouse or the Bartok. I cannot comment on your descriptions s I have no experience of the speakers you are comparing them to. Yes Rouse is forward in the mix but not to a distracting degree for me and with the bass positioned behind him, drums left and piano right all seems right with the world. Remember that I have the speakers 24" to my left and right.

    The Bartok Concertos I had never listened to before. The recordings are excellent. LOVE the tonality through these boxes.

    No, of course they don't have the scale or bass of my main system. But i can listen to these for hours, and hear things in the music that I haven't before.

    For £500 I am satisfied. If I got the chance to listen to a proper pair of LS3/5a I would LOVE to do the comparison; but, then I might be left with a yearning to spend yet more money on HiFi!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
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  12. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    Impressive write up. One of the best I read in years.
     
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  13. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto
    Did you track down and fix the rattle?
     
  14. Bananajack

    Bananajack Phorum ... wat Phorum? Where am I?

    Location:
    Singapore
    This was an absolutely great review, kudos for that.

    As a former crazy LS 3/5a collector and having compared many other speakers of that size & concept
    I would like to add some words:

    LS 3/5a are somehow obviously the reference, which every manufacturer refers to, wants to beat or better.
    Imho it hasn’t worked out yet. Why? They are just sounding natural and realistic (especially voices). There
    is nothing hectic in the timing ... there are no speakers, just a stage.

    Harbeth P3ESR are more detailed, probably a bit clearer and fill even bigger rooms.
    They fail in very small rooms or on the corners of a writing desk (I worked that way for a few years).
    And they are in comparison bright (side by side you feel it). In my opinion the Spendor S3/5 are better.
    I had my Harbeth (biwire) at the Harbeth dealer here (we are a bit friends) and we compared - even he
    was quite thoughtful afterwards.

    Falcons are the best clones and very near to the original. Rogers Anniversary models are the worst ones,
    despite still sounding pretty good (if no comparison is at hand). Graham are grainy and below Harbeth P3
    (any model). I don’t touch Chinese clones, sorry, have worked too long with Chinese factories ... don’t
    expect too much. And definitely no wonders. It’s rubbish ...

    LS 3/5a benefit from being nearer (not at) to a back wall (they were constructed for small broadcasting vans).
    So on stands far away from walls they are not at their best - as said smallish rooms (like a man‘s den) sound best.

    Modern amps are just WRONG for them (there is a website which gives recommendations which vintage amps
    to use with which vintage speakers). Generally they do not benefit from high damping factors or huge watts.
    They were developed with and probably for Quad 33/303 combinations (I have Quad 33/405 Mk1 for that
    purpose here at home).

    As a general rule - speaker age (first year of production) +/- 10 (better 5) years.

    Sound very good with my 1972 Tandberg TR 1055, very joyful and emotional combination.

    Still, they sound absolutely best with vintage tube amps, especially the 15Ohm versions (that is definitely tube
    amp area). Push Pull amps are better than Single Ended, as they need a bit of juice. I don’t mean these romantic
    sounding amps, but realistic recapped amps with NOS tubes. I have a 1962 studio tube amp with 2x35 (45peak)
    watts, which brings out the bass in simply another dimension (but that is rather for my Tannoys). It’s DEEP!

    If you have a bigger room or want somehow a bigger stage, stack 2 LS 3/5a (Tweeters in the middle). Got the idea
    from our Falcon importer, the result is a big speaker sound wise. And a damned good one.

    Some here talk about Rogers LS 3/5a. Well, there are differences between the brands ... and Rogers are definitely
    not the best ones, rather the opposite. Read the shootout on the LS 3/5a website, it is true and there are very
    audible differences (I redid the shootout at home with some of the models). It is not true, that 15Ohm versions are
    generally better.

    The best sounding LS3/5as are Chartwell (15Ohm, cutthroat prices) and Harbeth (11Ohm biwire, very rare). I did
    not hear a big audible effect from biwiring, but instead use AudioNote Silver Jumpers, which improve the treble
    a lot (grainy and nasal in Rogers). The worst LS 3/5a are Studio Rogers with XLR connections.

    Harbeth are a bit special, they are the only LS 3/5a which can somehow give a solid feel for Rock (not so loud pls).
    Stay away from Gold Tweeter versions, it’s really just the tweeter cover which is golden. No technical change.

    A good compromise in price/value are Spendor 11Ohms, which have the beauty of voices and soundstage still,
    just can’t rock. If you find (rare) KEF, RAM or Soundmaster, buy them.

    After 30 years of playing with them, throwing them in corners and mistreating them (sorry, Spendors, old friends)
    there was not a single technical problem. I still own three pairs.

    Really worth even the crazy prices of nowadays ...
     
  15. Mr Underhill

    Mr Underhill Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Hi Agitater,

    Not yet. I am just enjoying listening to them. I will in due course.

    Thx,

    M
     
  16. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    For the benefit of those who are convinced the Sound Artist are better than Wharfedale Diamonds. These are £250 in UK, so something to think about. Some advantages in presentation over real LS3/5A possibly ?



    I think the finish looks better than Sound Artist.
     
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  17. Hood 1969 15wpc class a amp drives the ls50s well to med loud (not club levels) volumes.
     
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  18. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Certainly a very respectable monitor of that size, and no contest price-wise! I'd have to a/b audition them with LS3/5A's to know if they were competitive doing that particular midrange magic thing, though.
     
  19. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    For me, no loudspeaker is a true, authentic LS3/5A unless it uses the correct loudspeaker drivers, and is BBC Licensed and built to BBC standards. If it's not that it's inspired by one.
     
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  20. Soundsense

    Soundsense Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado USA
    A matter of opinion only, and 'very near to the the original' can be said of the sound of several of the newer clones.
    The placement of the ls3/5a depends a lot on what is going on with the room acoustics. Mine are well out from the back wall, 50", with big corner bass traps, out of preference....there, they exhibit the best of the midrange clarity, sound staging and depth, with surprisingly good bass, in a 14'X16' room
    That is not my experience.
    That is not my experience.

    I've run various ls3/5a with Quad 303, Quad 909, vintage Quad II tubes, modern D class amps, big power amps from the '80s, vintage Kenwood integrated, Rogue Cronus Magnum tubes and more. I would be hard pressed to vote for any one combination as clearly 'better'. The marvelous thing about these speakers is how easy they are to pair up with so many different styles of amps, successfully, yielding different but likable results. In terms of sound characteristics like resolution, staging, high frequency clarity, sure, the amps give different results, but consistently agreeable all the same.
     
  21. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Toronto
    I absolutely like the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5A best too, but they aren’t clones. They’re fully licensed versions of the original BBC design. Says so on the Falconacoustics.co.uk web site, unless they’re messing with us which I doubt. Around here - and on most audio, wristwatch, camera lens, and several other sorts of enthusiast sites - “clone” means an inferior, illegal copy.

    I’ve found that a wide range of modern amps and integrated amps - the LFD NCSE MKII, NAD M10, Icon Audio ST40 Plus, Audio Aero Prima, NAD C388, Rega Brio (all versions), Rega Elex-R, Yamaha A-S801, Yamaha A-S2100, Naim Suipernait 2 and Supernait 3, Audio Analogue Maestro, Heed Elixir, Krell K300i, First Watt J2, Bryston B60, Bryston B135, Schitt Vidar, and a long list of other contemporary amp in Class A, A/B and D - work brilliantly with the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5A, Harbeth P3ESR, Graham/Chartwell LS3/5 and LS3/5A, and vintage Rogers LS3/5A.

    On the vintage side, I have found only a few amps - mainly receivers - that sound as genuinely musical and as wholly enjoyable as the latest stuff driving the Falcons or the Grahams. The Yamaha CR-2040, Yamaha CR-1020, Luxman R1120, Tandberg TR2060, Marantz 2250B, Kenwood KR-9400, Pioneer SX737, and along list of others I can’t remember that all drove both original LS3/5A and contemporary LS3/5A speakers to perfection. Nearfield, small or small-ish listening rooms certainly do work best. All of the vintage receivers that I’ve owned or that I’ve borrowed have been (and still are) fully restored and because of tighter spec’d replacement caps (among other parts) boast sightly tighter electronic tolerances than the original factory specs. The Yamaha CR-2040, Tandberg TR2060, Luxman R1120 and that Marantz 2250B sound astonishingly good and seem to have been able to beautifully and powerfully drive any speaker I throw at them.

    The next treat is going to be a comparison between the original KEF LS50, the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5A, and the newly released KEF LS50 Meta which should be available for me to pick up in about ten days. Looking very much forward to that.
     
  22. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    This is what economies of scale buys you. But they're still £250 speakers. Very good £250 speakers, but a shootout is called for!!
     
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  23. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Based on reading (and watching) of many recent reviews of LS3/5A's, ancient and modern, my understanding is that they play well with all sorts of amps -- low- and high-powered (as long as you don't get crazy with the volume), tube and solid-state. I have gotten the impression though, from several of these reviews, that class-D amps generally aren't the best way to go with LS3/5A's.
     
  24. Soundsense

    Soundsense Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado USA
    @bhazen, I have experienced no negatives from using several types of class-D amps with the ls3/5a, or any other speaker either. In my listening space, I would say that, amongst my amp choices, the PS Audio S300 really shines with the ls3/5a. I've tried it with both solid state and tubed preamps to good effect, (albeit, a different effect). This combination actually showcases the ls3/5a's resolving capabilities in the bass extension and the high treble region. I wouldn't want to put anybody off from trying such an amp with these speakers.

    As I write this, I am listening to Rutter's Requiem using the S300 with ls3/5a. The timbre and richness of the prominent cello parts comes through fully. The voices are resolved beautifully and the enclosed space has all the dimension one could wish for. Thumbs up!
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
  25. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Good to hear! :)

    I've been struck by how much Alan Shaw (Harbeth) has insisted over that his speakers are amp-agnostic. P3ESR's of course being cut from very similar cloth as LS3/5A's.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2020
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