Sound Quality, How far do yo go..?

The best hifi tweak I've found so far is paying proper attention to whatever you're lucky enough to already own, and making sure you're using it properly! I recently upgraded my Rega P2 cart from the stock Carbon to a Bias2. I wasn't happy with the sound, started to blame my amp (Yamaha AS500) and nearly dropped £200 on a new phono stage...but instead I printed out a free alignment protractor, saw that my needle was WAY off, fixed it, now it sounds freaking amazing. I'm still gonna buy that phono stage soon though...

 

That all depends. Is someone using record clamps because they have warped records, or are they using them for some mystical audiophile reason?

 

I'll add, I have a record weight, which might be one of those audiophile constructs that have a possibility of making sense.

I can't tell any difference in using it or not using it, so I never use it. Records bring enough bother to the table without adding any thing extra.

From that standpoint alone, I would never use a record clamp. But then, I avoid buying warped records.

 

Record clamps, in particular center and center only clamping systems, aren't so great at eliminating warps (center and periphery clamping, or vacuum hold down can do that). But more tightly clamping the record to the platter can potentially reduce noise and help terminate ringing, but a lot depends on the clamp and the surface you're clamping the record do. It's not really mystical. These types of things are measurable.

 

Perhaps so. But I never measure anything, nor do I know or care any measurements of anything in my system.

If I cared about measurements, I wouldn't own most of the gear that I do.

Those who live their audio existence based on measurements are very well advised to avoid vintage components and tube gear on general principle.

With note to my previous post...

I do keep it as my single venture into the audiophile world of questionable do-dahs. F.W.I.W., I didn't buy it, it came with the pre-owned Thoren's vintage TD-160 Super turntable, which I acquired. You can see it, sitting on the lower shelf, on the left.

I have at times used it, along with the record brush above it when I have muggles visiting. It makes for a more complete audiophile show.

So, at least, it does manage to serve some sort of purpose.

 

Certainly when I added the Orbe clamp to my Gyro Dec it improved the whole sound, tighter, more rhythmic, wider deeper soundstage. This was not particularly subtle either.

 

That's a bit of an overreaction to a post suggesting something can be measured. I wouldn't try half the stuff I do, or own what I have, if measurements were "all that mattered." I fully disagree with staunch objectivism - that's called a science project, not a stereo system, IMO.

But record clamps, especially ones which dissipate or terminate resonance which directly correlates to how clearly a transducer can trace a groove? That can be measured or heard rather easily.

I also find your stance on measurements of any sort, to be a little ironic considering your signature.

 

No mystical reason. Sheesh. Rings couple records to platters. Rings create centrifugal force. Rings do flatten warps. Not every TT is designed to use rings. VPI TT's are and I know record playback is better with the ring.

 

Nothing mystical about setting a TT on glass which is on a speaker. Holy smokes.

 

This can't be serious.

 

You totally missed the point about how clamps work and the effect they can have. Why go off on a tangent about measurements? The point about measurements was simply made to highlight that this isn't only in people's imaginations. I appreciate you not being a slave to measurements, most of us aren't, but it's also nice when they can confirm something works, whether that is audible 100% of the time or not.

The language you use to describe audiophiles is dismissive and I think reveals a bias that surely helps form your opinion of things. I think it's healthy to be skeptical, perhaps especially in this hobby, but one should at the same time keep an open mind.

 

I'm not on the same page as SandAndGlass but I also don't take measurements in to account, although I may be interested in the measurement if I can hear a positive difference

The question is why consider a measurement if you can't hear it and if you believe a measurement is important will that mean you can hear it.

With every piece of equipment I've bought I never looked for all those specs some reviews include, you have to embrace that it's all down to your opinion when you pick your system.

 

The one thing for certain a measurement can show is that something is not "mystical."

Personally, while I don't think measurements can tell you everything, and specs from a manufactures don't always comport with third party measurements or are incomplete, so they have to be taken with a grain of salt sometimes, I think this hobby kind of when off the rails when it went so deeply into the purely subjectivist that it actually became hostile to measurements and to knowledge of how things work in audio and to the very notion of hifi -- as in fidelity to the original signal -- and became kind of, whatever sounds good to any one of us IS good kind of solipsism. That's a separate conversation. than the conversation about these specific tweaks mentioned in this article. But at least some of the tweaks mentioned in this article or other design elements brought up in this thread, like record clamps, have some basis for functioning. They're not extant only for "mystical audiophile reasons."

 

I'm not antagonistic about measurements but listening to music is subjective and these tweeks are assessed by subjective experience of any effect on your system/room synergy.

You've probably noticed that I'm evangelical about isolation and by trail and error came to conclusions based on listening now I'm interested in a number of questions concerning what I believe is happening and yes I'm very interested in how my thoughts relate to measurable factors.

However whilst I've seen many explanations of the basic principles I've never come across any measurements, which address my questions, however that's not changed by experience.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest that it's all purely personal experience but in fact I would expect a consensus of personal experience when rating equipment.

You seem to be wanting to reverse the basis of scientific inquiry in that we observe and then systematically try to identify the cause.

 

Objectivity and subjectivity are at best confusing. What is perfectly objective can easily be dismissed using subjectivity, by some. Nowadays we see this everywhere, and it´s not in the end a way to go.

 

It works the other way as well, though. Something can be objectively true (this DAC has a higher level of SINAD than this DAC) but at no point can we, subjectively, confirm that it matters, or is even detectable versus a DAC that has a lower SINAD.

I agree with your sentiment in terms of things like how we deploy capitalism or how we address policy for the pharmaceutical or gun industries (e.g. things with heavy social impact) but for audio? It's a hobby, not a science fair.

 

What we audiophiles do with "listening tests" isn't scientific inquiry -- we're not doing controlled observations and single variable comparisons typically and we're using single samples, our own personal experience. It's not the world most important thing and if people like to listen to what they like to listen to, that's fine with me. I just object to something being dismissed as "audiophile mysticism" or whatever -- not your term, I know -- when that stuff is based on sound principles and verifiable effects.

 

Steve Guttenberg recommended opening the doors to your listening room today. He claims this improves the bass. I'm curious if any of you guys have tried this and what were your findings?

I plan to try for myself later today when I am home.

 

I think we're fundamentally in agreement but too stubborn to agree before others, or we've just disagreed again.

 

That sounds like an old car audio trick - roll down the windows, bass seems deeper. Has to do with wavelengths, I believe. That said, when I open the door to my listening room it throws everything off so I keep it shut. Imaging shifts, the illusion sort of falls apart. Not worth it for a little more bass (which I don't need anyway). But YMMV, can't hurt to try!

 

I'd ask my neighbors first but I've not heard any improvement in my room, I'd be interested in knowing your experience

 

I've heard it and measured it. If I open the door on the wall behind my speakers and sub, which lead into a short hall and then another room beyond (door also open), I can flatten out a boundary reinforcement peak at around 45 Hz that exists at the listening position if those doors are closed. I didn't get the same result opening the door behind my listening position.

 

Thanks, sorry, I meant interior doors. In my listening area I have two closet doors and a bathroom door I could experiment with.

I have tried it with the bathroom door open before and didn't like how it affected the focus of the upper frequency sounds.

 

Thanks!

Did opening the door behind the speakers have any adverse effect on the sound?

 

No, it leads to a landing. Because of the way my speakers are toed in the right speaker more or less fires directly at that door so I like to leave it open to minimize the HF reflections off that surface. When I close the door (because my wife doesn't want to hear the music upstairs), I put some diffusion on the door to break up those reflections. I haven't done any sweeps lately with the diffusion in place. Letting the HF out into a hall behind the listening position (or even behind the speakers) can sometimes result in some kind of ringing out there that might be audible in the room. I've played around with some acoustic absorption in the hall, but I find either way it's not critical. The big difference I found, probably because of the wall boundary proximate to the sub, in my room, was opening the door to the hall and the back room behind my speakers, which, as I said, flattened a circa 45 Hz peak.

I'm not sure opening closet or bathroom doors would do much of anything in terms of these long bass waves and room reinforcement and cancellation.