Soundbars compared to speakers?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by jbilliam8, Aug 12, 2022.

  1. JohnT

    JohnT Senior Member

    Location:
    PA & FL gulf coast
    I bought a Klipsch soundbar for the TV in a condo. Had lip sync issues I couldn't resolve and now use it playing music off the laptop.

    It's ok but I'd much prefer powered speakers for that application.
     
    bever70 likes this.
  2. mwheelerk

    mwheelerk Sorry, I can't talk now, I'm listening to music...

    Location:
    Gilbert Arizona
    You can with technology when bigger isn't always better...
     
  3. DonNylon

    DonNylon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Haha good to hear I'm not crazy. DRM is something I'll have to look at in TV audio gear should I look to replace my current setup. Good to know terms like that as Best Buy sales guys may not jump to explain all these things to me HA.
     
  4. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Best Buy calls it DRC (Dynamic Range Control) according to this BB page, the source in regards to Best Buy showing the $300 soundbar...

    https://www.bestbuy.com/site/questi...question/acf74909-6788-32eb-9e61-6175d27c8cc9
     
  5. DonNylon

    DonNylon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Ah I see. I wonder if guys at a HiFi or central entertainment system type shop would use the same verbiage or if it's proprietary...like ordering a McFlurry at Wendys they're like "a what?" but the same tech exists in quality CE setups though. Will have to do some digging...
     
  6. normanr

    normanr Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    A very quick Google brings up the info that DRC is incorporated in the metadata of Dolby audio, so (as I understand it) if you have a Dolby-equipped system that supports DRC, you can select different amounts of compression depending on how wide a dynamic range you want. Source: A Closer Look at Audio Metadata

    Something similar exists in DAB, the digital radio system used in Europe, Australia etc, where the radios have DRC settings that can be selected for home use or in-car/noisy environment.

    In both cases, if I understand it correctly, the metadata in the audio already contains the “instructions” on how to change the dynamic range, the user just selects which level of DRC they want from a predetermined range.
     
  7. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    There is no way a sound bar would even come remotely close to providing the surround audio experience that my speaker system provides. It's just not possible especially with multi-channel music. If one doesn't have the space or budget for a 5.1 speaker system then a sound bar is a good option. But for someone that has a full blown surround system it'd be a huge step back to go to a sound bar IMO.
     
  8. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Please let us know what you find because I really can't stand cranking up the volume to hear dialog and then later to grab a snack in the kitchen suddenly running into and stumbling over my easy chair to grab the remote to turn it down because I forgot I cranked it up and the explosions nearly rip my speakers voice coils to shreds.
     
    DonNylon likes this.
  9. normanr

    normanr Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    As a follow-up to my last post, I tried enabling “night sound” mode for my Sonos Beam, which I believe is their version of DRC. At a comfortable volume for everyday use, with “night sound” on a TV drama in Dolby 2.0 had clear dialogue and the music and sound effects were not excessively loud (this was a BBC crime drama). With “night sound” off the music was intrusive and required frequent adjustment to the volume control. So my preliminary observation is that DRC makes the balance between dialogue and music/explosions etc more appropriate for home viewing without spoiling the overall sound.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
  10. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    You make it sound very simple, easy and quite compatible with a wide range of playback devices. And I understand metadata but I can never see it actually work.

    How has it worked for you?

    Does it really make a difference? Because my Sony BD player has a bunch of audio selections. One is the obviously named DRM with 3 options Wide, Night or Standard. None of them ever works with BD's loaded with a bunch of Dolby XXX compatibility claims.

    But it did work on one DVD movie and all it had was stereo something or other or 2.1 or something. I have to use photographer's magnifying glass to read all that's listed on the back of the disc case. The type fonts are so tiny.
     
  11. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    To me there's nothing better than a well setup surround system with a movie or album playing with an excellent surround mix. It's neither dumb nor distracting IMO.
    How is your speaker system setup? Are you using a dedicated center speaker? Are you using an AVR for audio? If you are using an AVR have you checked the center channel speaker volume setting? The difference between a well setup surround system and a poorly setup system can really form ones opinion either way. A basic entry level surround system can sound great if the speakers are located properly and all channel levels are set (calibrated) properly. If not then chances are it's not going to be a good listening experience.

    Years ago I was over a friends house and her husband had their Bose surround system setup all screwed up. Not only were the levels way off but he had the center channel in the back of the room. So all dialog was coming from behind everyone. I didn't say anything and just tried to ignore how bad the system sounded. If someone was new to surround and heard this system they couldn't help but form a very negative opinion of surround sound.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
  12. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    It doesn't matter because if it were my speaker system then the audio feed from my cable TV's DRC mechanism showing the same movie should have the same huge difference between soft vocals and loud explosions and it doesn't.

    That's why I tend to watch the rerun of a movie on my cable tv channels when I have the BD in my closet. I wish the cable tv channels would provide us their software/metadata or whatever they use to control DRM/DRC because it's quite good and it works ALL THE TIME.
     
  13. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Actually it does matter. You didn't say if you have a dedicated center channel speaker so I'm going to assume that you do not. The issue you're having when playing discs with your Blu-ray player could be a setting issue. Not sure which Blu-ray player you have. But there could be a setting to provide a "phantom center" when a center channel speaker is not used. That would help route the center channel information to the R&L front speakers. There could be a DRC setting in the Blu-ray players setting menu that you could try.

    If you'd provide information on the gear you're using and the way it's connected it would be helpful so fellow members could help you. If you chose not to then that's your choice. Quite often issues one is having with their systems can be corrected by having everything set correctly.
     
  14. DonNylon

    DonNylon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    A perfect description of my behavior when the action scene hits hahaha. I'll update you if I find some gear, tech, or work arounds that work!
     
    Tim Lookingbill likes this.
  15. mds

    mds Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    They certainly make a nice compact wife friendly way to improve over the stock TV speaker, however they could never compare to larger drivers in larger boxes. If it were a choice between a sound bar and those rinkey dink 5.1 plastic surround sound kits I would pick the sound bar hands down. If it were between a fully fleshed out 5, 6 or 7.1 surround sound set up using a processor, subwoofer(s), center, fl, fr, rl and rr matched speakers there is just no comparison. Of course you can't push these great speakers behind sofas, chairs, and stuffed in a wall unit can you?
     
  16. Mark Shred

    Mark Shred Fiery the angels fell..........

    Location:
    Pendle
    Soundbars sound like compressed mush. They all have the same compressed sound that's perfect for the brave new world order digital age. They aren't hifi !
     
  17. normanr

    normanr Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I watched the Dick Wolf show FBI at 11.30 last night with “night sound” enabled. With the volume just loud enough to hear the dialogue clearly, the music stings had a decent amount of weight but there was no need to fiddle with the volume control when things got noisy. I’m going to leave “night sound” on 24/7 now. It makes watching TV more enjoyable but doesn’t affect other sources such as streaming music or radio.
     
  18. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    I already indicated in this thread I'm using Boston Acoustic 3in. satellite speakers electronically coupled with a mini subwoofer with adjustable crossover. And I've already fiddled with the Sony BD player's DRC settings...

    Here's a text dump from the PDF instructions for DRC settings available on my 2009 Sony BD player...


    “Audio DRC.”Selects the dynamic range (compression level of the sound) setting when playing a BD or DVD that conforms to Audio DRC. HUH????? How do I know if it does?

    “Audio DRC” is effective only when playing Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, and Dolby TrueHD audio signals.
    • When“DolbyDigital”is set to“DolbyDigital”in the “Audio Settings” setup (page 45), “Audio DRC” has no effect on the audio output from the DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL/COAXIAL) jack. However, this excludes the following cases.....
    – when “BD Audio Setting” is set to “Mix” when playing a BD.
    – when “Audio Output Priority” is set to “HDMI” or “Stereo Analog." I have an analog wired stereo speaker setup so I chose Stereo Analog. HDMI setting doesn't work.
    Stereo Analog Sets the downmix method of multi-channel to two-channel sound.


    “Downmix” has no effect on the bitstream audio output from the DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL/ COAXIAL)/HDMI OUT jack.
    Dolby
    Surround
    Outputs the Dolby Surround (Pro Logic) signals in 2 channels. Select this when connecting an audio device that supports Dolby Surround (Pro Logic).
    Normal
    Outputs audio signals without Dolby Surround (Pro Logic) effect. Select this when connecting an audio device that does not support Dolby Surround (Pro Logic). I set this to Normal since my speakers aren't Pro Logic speakers
    Auto DRC...
    Performs playback at the dynamic range specified by the disc (BD-ROM only). Other discs are played back at the “Standard” level.
    Standard DRC
    Performs playback at a compression level between “TV Mode” and “Wide Range.”
    TV Mode

    Sounds are compressed heavily. Low sounds are easier to hear.
    Wide Range DRC...
    No compression works. A more dynamic sound is produced.

    DO YOU SEE HOW COMPLICATED THIS IS GETTING?! IT'S GUARANTEED NOT TO WORK DUE TO THE PLETHORA OF QUESTIONABLE COMPATIBILITY ISSUES and no way to know if it's working as designed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
  19. Can Utility

    Can Utility Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk,England
    I'm moving soon and have decided to buy a Samsung 930B soundbar. It consists of a soundbar, sub and two wireless surround speakers. I'll drive it with my Denon 1600 av amp. It will only be used for TV/ films. I have a dedicated stereo set up. The Samsung has got good reviews but who knows?
    I've used for over 20 years a Bose acoustimas 12 speaker system for av duties but I think it's time to part company. I can't put another 5 speakers in my lounge and I'm hopeful this Samsung will do the job.
    It's a cliche but the soundbar is wife friendly, I'm just hopeful this model with the sub and surrounds will come close to my old Bose ( which was no room shaker).
     
  20. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    I don’t see why you would need your Denon av amp. The Samsung 930B speakers are all self powered.
     
  21. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I saw your earlier posts. In not one of them do you indicate the exact amount of speakers or if any of them are being used as a dedicated center speaker. Once again accurate information would be nice so as to provide assistance with your issue.
    That's good. But it still seems like a system or a setting issue. I have a Blu-ray player and a Roku for streaming. I have no dialog issues and never need to lower the volume of my system due to specific channel volume inconsistencies.
    I don't really see it as being complicated. One just has to have patience and take the time to go through all the possible settings and connections. Cable and streaming services do not have a magic formula in the way they provide audio for their content. I have numerous Blu-ray discs with many different versions of DD and DTS. I have no issues with any of them in regard to proper audio playback.

    So if I can get consistent audio output with cable, streaming and a Blu-ray player you should be able to as well. If you want to blame "THE PLETHORA OF QUESTIONABLE COMPATIBILITY ISSUES" then so be it. I'm certainly not waiting to watch re-runs of titles I have on Blu-ray due to audio issues. Now that's crazy! The biggest reason being that Blu-rays have better audio quality. Much prefer DD True HD and DTS-MA HD over DD+ any day.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
  22. skimminstones

    skimminstones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    interested if people are answering about soundbars used for music or just films?

    i want to reduce my box count so am considering changing to a soundbar but it would only be used for tv/films. For music i'll keep my stereo speakers and amp. I dont tend to watch that many movies these days so getting rid of my av amp and centre speaker is interesting.
     
  23. Can Utility

    Can Utility Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk,England
    I have it and I'll try it with or without. If without works I'll give the amp to my daughter.
     
  24. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Did you really stop to think you were helping me with your response? You've solved nothing at the same time shown with an air of condescending authority that you don't really understand how DRC works and when it doesn't work. I'm sure it was time well spent for you. Thank you for your efforts. I'm moving on.
     
  25. cdash99

    cdash99 Senior Member

    Location:
    Mass
    After a downsizing, we put in a Sonos system, with Play 1’s for rear surround and one of their subs. It’s not the same as a component system, but it’s better than I’d expect. The only change I’d make with the benefit of hindsight would be to use Bluesound rather than Sonos in order to play my SACD’s and the DVD A layer of those discs, as Sonos isn’t hi-res capable.
     

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