Source first or speakers first?

Very Cool...but guess I'm not invited as this message comes up,"This member limits who may view their full profile." Am I doing something wrong?

Ted

 

I'll look into it.
I did not mean to lock anybody out.

 

Thank you for telling me there was a problem.
I have never changed the setting myself but for some reason none of my "permissions" were checked.
I guess without putting a check next to "allow' somehow my profile was shut down.
Used to work fine.
I'll start checking everybody for a while.
Maybe the forum did one of those "updates" that gets wacky all of a sudden.
Thanks again.
Let me know if it still won't work please.

 

Speakers First

 

I think the 50% rule shouldn't be a literal number/rule but a general rule of thumb/ idea to guide folks who maybe just have no idea of where to prioritize the budget spending.
That budget ratio could vary greatly for different systems and listening rooms.
As a general approach though I still think it wise to build your system around a pair of speakers that have the character and quality you find will work for your listening needs and very importantly your room considerations.
Once you have identified the Speaker you want to go with that will inform you on what your speakers will require for amplification and how much and what type of power you need.
Solid State?, Tube?, D-class? integrated or separates? will 75 watts be adequate? or will you need much more? what is the load the amplifier will see from the speakers?
That then informs your interconnect and speaker cable needs.
Then you can establish that ratio of Front end source to Amplifier budget needs knowing what it will take to power those speakers.
Do your research before you even start listening that way you are at least somewhat informed, but keep an open mind.
And always consider where is the piece of equipment made?
What is the track record of the brand and make?
Will I have a local dealer who will support this piece if there are problems?
If it need repairs can it be dealt with in country and what does the warranty cover?
Will this component have a decent resell value if I need to get out of it?

 

I voted Speakers.

but increasingly I do find the source to be incredibly important.
My experimentation of DACs lately has shown me that one might have that ‘ magic’ and one might leave me completely cold.

go figure

 

I agree you should never underestimate how important the source component is.
But....in order to hear what information your source is passing you need to have the speakers that can translate that information on to your ears in accurate and pleasing manner.
Now you have the audiophiles dilema.......enjoy!

 

Ted I found that my system that I have ended up with was a long journey as well.
I can tell most folks out there that listening and understanding hifi systems/playback is a complex and sophisticated learning experience.
"People don't know what they don't know."
And if you've never heard it....you don't know that it's wrong and/or missing.
But the journey is a educational experience and you will gain knowledge by having more exposure to more playback systems and your palette my become more sophisticated- depending on how far you need to take this endeavor.......just don't take it too far.....that is, the most fun you can have in this game is finding the "value to performance" champions.
All the while connecting with the music you are hearing.
The music comes first.

 

Sorry to bother you Ted.
But does my profile work correctly now?
I got yelled at by another poster when I removed my gear listing temporarily a while back.
So a week ago I spent several hours making a new profile with photos.

Does it work?
Sorry to ask but I really can't check it myself as I only use one SHF account so no way to verify by checking this myself.

 

I checked yesterday and it’s all there.

 

Good deal.

 

No bother, DF! Yes, as KH said, works and looks great...I meant to get on and give you a thumbs-up, but emergencies popped up with grandsons and pets (It's all "Fine" now)!

Thanks for all your detailed audio info & pics...very interesting collections, especially with only a year of research and homework!!!

Ted

 

This thread has encouraged me to upgrade my speakers, my stand mount QA's 3020i sound really good in our small front room but have decided to go for Dali Oberon 5 floor standers.

 

Maybe.
I wouldn't think it should even take THAT long if you dive in and study.
Join a forum like this and ask the right questions.

In my experience most of the critical decisions seem to be about how much control you can have over running your set.
And how to set it up in YOUR room.
A subject they don't even TELL you about at most "big box stereo stores." Hah!

Good gear has differences.
But for the most part real good stuff is all pretty adequate if it matches up with your own needs.
The big improvements come with room setup and tuning control.

So I still maintain it IS possible to lay out a system, build it---then just enjoy it forevermore.
But I DO realize many of us had to listen a lot to trust things would actually work.
Perhaps my view is distorted because I was surrounded by gear my entire working career.
I'm just trying to offer a suggestion that the planning of a complete system can have a beginning AND an end.

Some don't believe it.
That's great.
Unfinished systems sort of bug me personally.
It's just a result of doing all this for a living I guess.
An unfinished system is sort of loved and sort of hated.

Strange way to enjoy a hobby but hey---some guys really LOVE endlessly testing stuff.
These guys will then argue with me about there even BEING a method to plan out what you need.
Different strokes I guess...

 

GAH!

 

Just curious. What are you referring to as an “unfinished system” what does that mean?

 

A system that you know is missing something vital.
An "oops---I need to replace the whatever because the sound is off...."
A system that AFTER you are all built it fails to give you the thrill of owning such a wonderful thing.

I have owned a $40 portable radio (a Grundig) that gave me a thrill of completion.
I have known guys with over $50,000 tied up in their systems that were DEEPLY disappointed in how it performed.

Their systems were never FINISHED properly.
They leave you begging to fix the darn thing.

Most of the time it comes from not sitting down BEFORE purchase and writing up a list of EXACTLY what the system is supposed to provide.
Then sitting there until you have an exact list of products that used together will get the job done perfectly.
For the money spent.

 

As the thread is all about system construction techniques---let me add one more piece of the puzzle.
I KNOW what to buy and have done so correctly in my home setups.
But each one took a considerable time of setup adjustments (mostly just moving speaker boxes and trying different crossover settings) to get them to behave.

My nearfield setup sounds perfect NOW.
But I fussed over speaker placement and room tuning for two years getting it perfect.
Not BUYING more junk.
Moving stuff!

The longer I own a set the more intimate I become with how it FUNCTIONS.
As I hear deeper into a set I hear room for setup improvements.
That is where the system finally "blooms" and comes into its own.

So while I encourage system design to be a finished process---I also realize room tuning is a Looooong process in most cases.
But that is my conclusion after 55 years of building systems.
YMMV.

 

Thanks for the explanation. In my case I knew exactly what I needed and went out and acquired what was necessary to complete that vision.

I’m very happy to say it’s been a more than hoped for success.

I foresee no need to change anything except if there were some drastic advances in the streaming front end hardware technology as it’s my sole source.

 

Don't hate me, I'm moving up the ladder.

 

Oh no-no-no-no!

Joking, of course.
Speakers need to fit the room.
But (just to make my point) You didn't PLAN for this?
Oh well.

And so I lose another one to the "dark side."
The never ending dark side of systemic upgrade-itis.
Gah!

 

In response to the bolded part, I think that is no doubt true. It sounds like you got to hear a lot of different gear as part of your job but then seem to be telling people who want to do the same that that isn't necessary if they just research a lot and plan carefully. Don't get me wrong - it's no doubt possible to assemble a pleasing system in that way. But there is no substitute for hearing different components for yourself. And if you buy and sell on the used market you don't have to get creamed on depreciation.

Unfortunately, I don't think that reading other people describe sound is usually as helpful. First of all, the language is very imprecise. Second, it's often exaggerated (night and day difference, giant killer, etc.). Third, to the degree the sound is described accurately, it's still a vague idea until you can quantify it in your mind by actually hearing it. And finally, there often isn't consensus. I always point to the threads that ask the question "can Harbeth speakers rock?". Not even Harbeth owners will agree on that one. Hearing other people describe sound can definitely help narrow things down though. While Harbeth owners don't agree on rock, they do agree on many other things, to where when I heard a pair for the first time it was pretty much as I'd expected (for some music).

That said, there are many who will buy a system and they are done. And there are of course many who want to try many different components. That's probably determined by something in a person's make up, and which path they end up going down was probably decided long before they stepped into an audio store for the first time.

 

So what's your opinion on the subject of what is first?
Speaker or Source?
I say it is the preamp sound and its function as a proper control center.
What's your opinion on the matter?

 

The 3020is sound great in our room, demoed and really liked the Oberon 5s will report back when set up but expecting to really like them too, we only have part of one room with space for my setup so theres not much planning to do.

 

Daaayaam, this needs to become a meme.