Speaker "Dot" Shootout

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Jul 18, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Curious to see if there will be any difference between using the following speaker stand "dots" between speaker and stand.
    Currently using the "blue dots" that came with the SoundAnchor stands. I have a number of different ones to try as shown below- and more.
    I will be measuring the response (pink noise and RTA software) to see if there are any measurable differences between the pads. I will also do some subjective listening as well.

    The reason for this is that there are lots of different iso pads, discs, contraptions, etc. and want to try and puts some rhyme to reason if possible.

    Harbeth speakers are known to be sensitive to stand type so we will see what happens.

    Baseline- Harbeth SHL5+ on SoundAnchor stands, spiked to concrete floor. Sorbothane blue dot between speaker and stand.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. PhotoMax

    PhotoMax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Orcas Island
    IKEA GUNSTIGs are a cheap diy option that seems very popular with the Linn crowd...
     
    bluemooze likes this.
  3. lonelysea

    lonelysea Ban Leaf Blowers

    Location:
    The Cascades
    bluemooze likes this.
  4. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I've tried all three types and a few others, though the clear plastic bumpers were rectangular instead of round. The Blue Dots are my preference. The clear bumpers stripped some of the veneer lacquer from my Stirlings.

    Very intrigued to see what the measurements yield.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  5. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    I look forward to your results Tony. :)
     
  6. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
  7. chipcalzada

    chipcalzada Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Philippines
    Please add Herbie's round or square fat dots to the list! I have the square dots in between my Dynaudio's and stand and they are great.
     
    gov, jupiterboy, avanti1960 and 2 others like this.
  8. cdash99

    cdash99 Senior Member

    Location:
    Mass
  9. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    One of the reasons I am doing this is that I hear certain resonances of peaks in the midbass. I blamed it on the subwoofers but not the case.

    I stayed with the "blue dots" that came with the stands because of some impressive dealer demos where the bass was excellent.

    The first challenger will be the clear silicone dots which are similar to the ones that came with some Skylan stands I used to have.
     
  10. Riotvan

    Riotvan Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Might also be an overlap in frequency of your speakers and subs causing the resonance. Crossing over subs is not easy.

    That being said i vote for sorbothane though with a lossy cabinet design as the Harbeth’s all bets are off i guess.
     
  11. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    On my list eventually. I bought a mega pack of different shapes and thicknesses of bumpers and would like to try them.
    I almost hope there isn't much of a difference between them or it will be somewhat of a rabbit hole.
    Imagine that there is no way to predict results in advance because every speaker and stand (and combination) are all different.
    Different stands, stand fill, speaker response, speaker mass, speaker cabinet etc. How do you then pick the best dot for your system?
     
    chipcalzada likes this.
  12. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City south of Detroit

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    cdash99 likes this.
  13. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Round (1) Results-
    Sorbothane 3/32" medium density Blue Dot (standard with SoundAnchor Stands) vs. "hardware store" 1/2" clear plastic bumpers.

    Point number 1- The difference is huge in both frequency measurements and listening evaluations. The affected frequencies are midbass and below (150Hz and lower).
    Point number 2- To get the best out of your stand mounted monitor- the interface device / thickness / material between speaker and stand matters more than anticipated and needs to be carefully selected.
    Point number 3- Even though frequencies below 150Hz are directly affected, the overall sound including midrange and treble frequencies are also greatly affected because of the overall balance of sound and possibly a "focusing" effect of a more rigid platform for the speaker.
    Point number 4- All speakers and stands are not created equal (mass of speaker, mass of stand, rigidity of floor, interface type between stand and floor, enclosure resonance of speaker, etc.) and these results may of may not apply. However- if you are into it, this is a cheap way to experiment that can drastically improve the sound of your system.

    Measurement review-
    The standard blue dot has more overall energy in frequencies below 150Hz. There is a wide plateau between 125 and 150 Hz that extends fully 5db greater than the clear dots plot. There is also 1-3 db more output between 65 and 100 Hz. There is also a peak in the response between 35 and 40Hz.
    The 1/2" bumper reduces the peak in the 40Hz area and significantly reduces the response in the midbass area.

    Listening review-
    The blue dot has been my long term speaker "dot" and one the things that occasionally caused irritation was a resonant peak in the lower bass which made it sound somewhat off, distorted and out of balance. This would surface with music that featured acoustic bass and it did not sound pleasant. The sound with the 1/2" clear dot completely eliminated this peak and was an immediate improvement in sound quality.
    The reduction in midbass energy that the clear dot provided also affected the overall sound by making it somewhat more clear and open which I prefer. Although the overall "warmth" of the sound had been reduced, the overall balance was still slightly warm and forgiving with no negative effects.
    And the big one is the "focus factor" eluded to earlier. The sorbothane dot is much softer than the clear dot and even when compressed by weight must be more flexible and allow more motion of the speaker during operation than the clear plastic bumper. With the plastic bumper, the system simply sounds more focused- more pinpoint that seems more than just elevating the midrange and treble by reducing the bass.
    The sound quality of the midrange and treble has improved. It is clearer and more focused without being sharp- and is somehow smoother than before. I am guessing that this is because of the reduced motion of the speaker resting on a less flexible material but it would seen to make sense.
    The bass response using the clear dot is still excellent. Although reduced, the attack seems sharper and less resonant.
    The overall sound with the clear dot bumpers is well beyond what I though would be possible. I just could not stop listening. Recording after recording sounded so clear, smooth, refined and full of light and life.

    Round 1 winner- 1/2" clear bumper. $1.98 at your local big box hardware store.

    Sorbothane Blue Dot (Purple trace)

    [​IMG]

    1/2" rubberized plastic dot (yellow trace)

    [​IMG]

    Overlay

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
    Denizen23, adamos, jfeldt and 9 others like this.
  14. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    The 1/2" clear bumper looks a lot like what Wharfedale includes with the Denton 80's.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  15. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I wouldn't use something with magnets...
     
  16. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Measuring and listening tests have been completed. Possibly the design of "lossy" British monitor cabinets make them more sensitive to the type of isolation dot you use because the differences were all over the map depending on what material and thickness was used.
    In general the taller / harder the dot, the more bass seemed to be lost but the image clarity and treble extension were spectacular.
    Ironically the worst sounding dot were the stock blue dots that came with the stands. They are the softest (sorbothane) and compressed quite a bit. The sound had an annoying peak in the bass that smeared everything.
    Second place goes to the very small clear silicone dots that were supplied with my old Skylan stands. But-----
    The winner is---- (second pic)

    [​IMG]


    ---- the KEF LS50 supplied moderate-hard rubber dot!
    I forgot to include them when I sold the LS50s (sorry man). Apparently KEF knows a thing or two about speaker to stand interface requirements.
    The bass is tight and perfect, imaging and highs are really nice.
    Again it may be the design of my particular speakers that makes them so sensitive but man, it was truly worth the effort to find the right ones.
    Peace and I hope you enjoyed and learned from this.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    tests are with subwoofer off.
     
  18. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    x2
     
    avanti1960 and 33na3rd like this.
  19. Ontheone

    Ontheone Poorly Understood Member

    Location:
    Indianapolis
    My DeVores came with what is best described as white colored Blu Tak. I have no appetite for comparing dots as I presume DeVore determined this concoction to work the best, sparing myself the drudgery of lifting the speakers repeatedly off the stand and picking off the tacky material. Not sure the juice is worth the squeeze in this endeavor. Maybe I'm not a true audiophile....:laugh:
     
    caracallac likes this.
  20. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    it seems quite common knowledge that the type and quality of the stand used is important to the sound of the speaker, especially with lossy boxes- even down to mass loading materials. an important part of the mix as I have learned is the material between speaker and stand. people are going to expensive extremes with this e.g. 4 figures for a set of eight.
    for me it was a matter of trying to tune out the bass peak i was experiencing.
    if you are happy with the sound then you are not motivated to try something else, good place to be.
     
    Tawaun A Williams and bever70 like this.
  21. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    My speakers use a thick green MDF and they are very dead, but even so Herbies dots work very well and the other thing about stands is how they connect to the floor. Using isolation between the stand and the floor is an even bigger area where small changes give real results.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  22. spartree

    spartree Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    This is really interesting. You’ve inspired me to do some testing. I’m sure my wife will think I’ve gone completely mad.
     
    gov, avanti1960 and timind like this.
  23. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Can we add BlueStik/BlueTak to the evaluation?
     
  24. spartree

    spartree Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Did you also run a baseline trial using no dots between the speakers and stands?
     
    avanti1960 and timind like this.
  25. ether-bored

    ether-bored click OK to continue

    *that* would be the perfect subject for its own thread...
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine