Speaker Placement/Distance Between

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Vaughan, May 22, 2021.

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  1. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Okay, I continue to experiment with my setup. Yesterday I was moving the speakers around, increasing how far they are apart, toe-in, etc. All in search of the perfect Soundstage. To an extent, it's always a compromise, isn't it? Forget optimal for the kit, we often don't have rooms to accommodate that. I'm never going to be able to get my setup to a perfect audiophile level due to the room. So it goes.

    But I'm curious about your setups, and the answers to these questions:

    How far are your speakers from the back wall?
    How far are your speakers apart from each other (Assuming stereo playback)?
    Is your listening seat midway between the speakers, or slightly off center?
    How far back is your seat?

    Seeing some of your setups I'll confess to some envy. Make me feel even worse!
     
    Bananas&blow likes this.
  2. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Don't worry too much about it, most people need to make compromises, sometimes you can compensate with better things here and there but there are always compromises. I always try to stick to the perfect triangle placement but if you live in a small place even that can be a challenge. Try at least 50cm from the walls. I normally listen standing up with my arms crossed while tapping my lips thinking what to change or just enjoying good recordings.

    [​IMG]
     
    goer likes this.
  3. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    Are those your actual measurements, or just an illustration?

    I read up on my Concept 40's, and they recommend a minimum of 200mm from the back wall, 500mm from side walls, and a toe-in of 30 degrees. The speakers should be 2-4m apart, with the listener 2-4m away. So yes, and equilateral triangle. I'm moving furniture to see how good I can make it, and was interested in how people had theirs configured. Moving furniture pretty much sucks, but that's an aside.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  4. tIANcI

    tIANcI Wondering when the hifi madness will end

    Location:
    Malaysia
    A quick way to set the sitting position, if you have set up based on the triangle, is also to try the following:

    - play a tone, say 440 Hz
    - move sitting position slightly forward and backwards
    - you will hear the node (softer) and anti-node (louder), there will be a few as you move the sitting position
    - find the position of the anti-node and then listen to music, see which one suits you best
     
  5. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I get a pretty good stereo image despite my compromises but in my case the speakers are also used for home theatre and they are further apart than what most people would have them. The graphic is only an illustration, mine are about 5.5 meters apart, the couch which is only used when watching movies is a bit closer but my standing position is roughly 5m from each speaker so I am not too far from what I preach. Roughly 50cm away from each side of the walls, my speakers are front ported. That is the solution to the combination I have of windows, projection, TV, HiFi and most importantly main living space, it just works for me and all the different uses I give this room.
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  6. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    I like the 80% triangle method, gives bigger speakers a bit of room to breathe. Cardas uses this in there setup video.
    Mine are about 9' apart, 12' from the listeners. The front baffle is 5" from the back wall, 3' to center of the baffle from the side wall on one side, about 5' on the other.
     
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  7. Gi54

    Gi54 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland
    • Setting up some demo Tannoy Eatons this week and their optomal setup entirely different to previous floorstanders in that toe in has speakers crossing in front of listener - seems to sound better that way. Speakers and listener in 2.8m triangle with Eatons front 0.8m from back wall and 1.5 m from side walls. Settee is 1.2m from rear wall. Soundstage and sweetspot are incredibly wide. Bass is fantastic. Treble still to experiment with the dB and roll off tuning pegs.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
  8. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    My speakers are about 10 feet apart, towed-in to my listening position about 12 feet from speakers. For the most part, the speaker positioning is not negotiable; however, as it is, the sound stage is magnificent, in all manner magnificent can be discerned, for both stereo and multi-channel presentations. Nevertheless, at one time I had sliders on my speakers allowing me to quickly place the speakers in front of my cabinets in various places relative to my listen position; yet, since none of those speaker placements improved my sense of a proper sound stage, I am no longer concerned that there might be a speaker to listening position relationship which might be more entertaining.[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
    timind likes this.
  9. norliss

    norliss Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cardiff, Wales
    I have a hunch that you quite like Sony? I suppose the turntable and speakers must have a bond of solidarity with each other :laugh:
     
    Sterling1 likes this.
  10. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    Use good dsp room correction, with a Harman dbx or Dirac live processor ... and then tell me.
     
  11. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Yeah, I guess the speaker/turntable relationship is indeed bonded, being the only solution for easy use of each turntable. One turntable is a Sony purchased back in 1975. Working out so nicely, it inspired subsequent Sony purchases up to 1999. Since then I've not been able to find Sony branded products to fill my desires; thus, now an OPPO Player, Technics TT, and 2.1 Parasound P6 Preamplifier & DAC have been added to my system.
     
  12. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member


    My room is long but narrowish so my greatest constraint is speaker to sidewall boundary I can't get them more than circa 2.75 feet from their outer edge, circa 3 feet from the tweeter -- and still have the speakers far enough apart, circa 5 feet measuring tweeter to tweeter. The first reflection points on the sidewalls are covered with porous absorption and there's diffusion higher up in the room.

    The wall behind the speakers is 7 feet back or so -- and there's diffusion behind the speakers and nothing between the speakers.

    My seating position is around 9 feet from the speakers, and the walls behind me (they're irregular) are around 8 feet back.

    Before that I was in more an equilateral set up, more or less sitting in the front half of the room and with the speakers nearer to the back wall, but in taking measurements I found lumpy response that way in the circa 200 Hz range that I was able to flatten with repositioning.

    I like the speakers out in the room for soundstage purposes, if only because I struggle to "see" the soundstage in my mind's eye when the speakers are near a boundary.

    Speakers are toed in, pretty steeply so they cross a little behind the listening position (and toed down for closer to on-axis tweeter listening at my chair), and of course I'm sitting dead center between them. And for me a big help in opening up the soundstage, and eliminating shifts in the soundstage as I move around, and making the speakers really disappear, was diffusion behind my sitting position but as I said, the wall back there is around 8 feet behind me.

    Nothing directly between me and the speakers either besides carpeting. And I have lots of bass trapping and first reflection point absorption. Besides getting the geometry and the timing of direct vs. reflected sound to the ears right, and combating comb filtering effects from stuff around the seating position and the equipment, I find if there's flutter echo in the room it totally mucks up soundstage focus.
     
  13. House de Kris

    House de Kris VVell-known member

    Location:
    Texas
    If your goal is audiophile traits of soundstage and imaging, my opinion is that you must sit dead nuts center and have a symmetrical room. I personally prefer toe-in to the extent that I'm looking down the barrel of the speakers.

    I prefer equilateral triangles, and if not possible, isosceles. I don't like obtuse triangle positions much. Currently my setup is 12ft between speakers, sitting 16ft away from each. They're about 2.5ft from the front wall. Previously my setup was 12ft apart and I sat back 12ft from each, with a distance of about 9ft to the front wall.

    My best soundstage system is my outdoor setup with speakers 50ft apart and my seat 50ft from each speaker. There are no walls.
     
    Sterling1 likes this.
  14. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Does your system also deliver multi-channel music?
     
  15. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    No, just two channel stereo.
     
  16. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    congrats for making the effort to experiment and optimize- it is this kind of effort that makes everyone's system sound much better.

    lofty goals but ideally if you can do this you will nearly eliminate room influences especially in defeating bass cancellations, make your speakers disappear and have an amazingly deep soundstage-

    speaker rear baffle- five feet from wall. any less begins to compromise bass response in varying amounts. two feet absolute minimum.
    speaker to side wall- three feet, two feet minimum.
    ears to back wall- three feet. any closer puts you in a potential bass mode.
    with those boundaries, you can maximize your triangle in these proportions-
    center of speaker to center of speaker is distance B (triangle base);
    speaker plane to center of ear is equal to B (which is the height of the isosceles triangle, not an equilateral triangle). The legs of the triangle should be longer than the base.
    e.g. 8 feet speaker center to speaker center, 8 feet height (plane of speaker front baffle to ear centers) which would result in triangle legs 8.9 feet long.

    Isosceles Triangle Calculator
     
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  17. My room is 13 feet wide extending thru a breakfast nook then kitchen for about 32 feet so no back wall limits but a bit of a furniture challenge that wants 5' 1-1/2" between tweeters for best sound.

    Front baffles are 43-1/2" from front wall by 47-1/4" from sidewalls.

    Ears generally centered about 8 ft from each front baffle.

    Cabs toed-in about 2-1/2 degrees & tilted up about 1-1/4 degrees.

    I plugged in 13' by 13' for room size & hit the "calculate" button at the following link to set-up some initial dimensions. Then I plugged the 5' 1-1/2" "Space Between Speakers" (tweeters) into their "Real Trap 38% Option 2" & used the "update" button for front & side wall dimensions, ignoring their "Head to Main Wall" suggestion. Their placement calulator was a decent improvement for me.

    Speaker Placement Calculator
     
  18. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Mine 6.5' apart
    Seating 12' away centered
    Almost 0 toe-in
    Aimed about 6-9" above ear level
     
  19. Nero

    Nero Rega - Oppo - Luxman - Sonus Faber.

    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Is the reason why you have different distance to the side walls intentionally?
     
    Tim 2 likes this.
  20. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    No, there's a doorway to a hall on the far right side. I've tried the speaker an equal distance to the side wall but couldn't discern a difference so we put it back where it was more room friendly.

    We do most of our listening and entertaining in the garage where the speaker position is atrocious but still sounds very good, go figure.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. izeek

    izeek Drums, pulleeez!

    Location:
    md
    Speaker placement is it.
    Mine are 34.5 in from front wall to baffle.
    34 in from either sidewall.
    LP is 8.5ft from speakers.
    5.8ft wide from center of baffles.
    Toe in is triangulated 1ft behind my LP giving me wider soundstage.
    My sub is in the left corner about 28in from the left wall and angled almost 45° in relation to the corner and the baffle on roughly the same plane as the nearest speaker.
    My room is 13.5ftw×16.5ft long.
    There is about a 6ft opening to my left rear to the rest of the house.
    I have tape marks on the floor for the last three adjustments so I can compare.
    No room treatments yet.
    There is a large soft couch to my right and a medium double recliner behind me. The wall behind me is about 4ft back.
    I'm so far as pleased as we audiophiles can be.
     
  22. apesfan

    apesfan "Going Ape"

    Room is 19' long 13' wide
    Speakers are 5' into room 3' from side wall's
    I'm sitting 11' from Speakers 3' from back wall
    Subwoofers placed about 1/3 into room on average (2 KEFS) to smooth out bass frequency not blast me.

    Cardas Golden ratio setup worked for me....John M.
     
  23. Ntotrar

    Ntotrar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tri-Cities TN
    Cornwall = corner wall...

    [​IMG]

    Diferent designs require different placement. Manufactures are a good first source for this information. Your "Local" Audio Dealer is another.
     
    MarshallMan likes this.
  24. CDlover

    CDlover Senior Member

    Location:
    Slovenia
    Reading about speaker placement, I'm still not sure how to measure the distance from the back wall to the speaker? Is it distance from baffle to the wall or from the back side of the speaker to the wall?
     
  25. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    I assumed back of the speaker.
     
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