Speed stability: Direct Drive vs belt

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by DaleClark, Feb 11, 2019.

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  1. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    By the way how do you explain Art Dudley falling in love the idler wheel drive Thorens tables?
    And the entire industry doing a 180 and appreciating the new Technics tables for their "drive" "forceful correct timbre" and all the other accolades that came to the fore 40 years too late?
    Think we are ALL imagining this phenomenon?
    So please tell me what rubber band table and what high stiffness LOMC cartridge are YOU running with great success?
    I thought so...
    Another rubber band aficionado that paid a fortune for a wedding cake platter turntable with a rubber band.
    Still trying to justify your mistake?
     
  2. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    most likely something wrong with your table or setup
     
  3. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    nope
     
  4. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    and lol, Art Dudley
     
  5. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    Wow.
    THAT was a forcefull reply that cleared up your position entirely.
    Nope.
     
  6. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    It's just a turntable. Use the one you like best, not really that big an issue, if you can't decide, or if you hear benefits in both methods, do what I do and use both ... :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    Oh please.
    Kumbaya.
    And let's not argue HiFi on the basis of what we KNOW.
    Let's just be NICE and sit here with our thumbs up our coma se yamas....
    Jeez.
    This is a HiFi forum dedicated to passionate arguing.
    Please don't make this another dull politically correct meaningless bastion of BS for the challenged and threatened frightened safe space set...
     
    Old Rusty likes this.
  8. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    my tt don't use a "rubber band" or even anything made of rubber. and it is lightyears better than your tin junk.
     
  9. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    ?
     
  10. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    also, you are obviously too old to hear the difference
     
  11. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I knew good specs when I see it. And I know good music when I hear it.
     
    Slick Willie likes this.
  12. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    @Davey --- I tried that pages ago... :)

    This is no longer about reason or logic or accuracy --- this thread has turned into troll bait. The discussion is too one-sided, too emotional, and not objective with any sort of rationality. It's not even accurate, as every case being made can be countered by another TT of different type that nullifies any point.

    Time to kill it..... the thread even perhaps... this is useless discussion that won't help anyone who is trying to glean facts at a later date.
     
  13. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    50 years setup experience but thanks for playing...
     
  14. SteelyNJ

    SteelyNJ Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    So, I've been half-heartedly following what has devolved into a rather silly/annoying thread and I'm tempted to post unlabeled needle drops of an acoustic piano passage from both my Technics 1200MK2 DD and my 43-year-old basic Dual 510 BD (with a generic replacement belt I bought for $12 about 10 years ago) and see just how many of you so-called experts with ultra-sensitive hearing can definitely tell which is which. I’m guessing most of you are not nearly as discerning as you think!
     
    rebellovw likes this.
  15. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    you should do it I think
     
    domfjbrown likes this.
  16. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    While speed accuracy is important, a 0.025 % vs 0.05 % is on the whole not important. The speed errors in the vinyl medium is larger than that. More important IMO is to reduce distortion and noise as much as possible. Besides having a cartridge/stylus with low distortion and a tonearm to match, my Linn Axis (with excellent speed stability) has now entered the digital world through use of Mac Mini and ClickrepairRT. Could not be happier.
     
    SteelyNJ likes this.
  17. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine "So Hip It Would Blister Your Brain"

    My RPM 9 had a huge wedding cake of a platter and it wobbled and dropped in pitch the minute things got congested when it dragged around a 2 1/2 gram heavy tracking Denon DL103 using a rubber band.
    Art Dudley has noticed the same thing and that is why he loves the direct idler wheel models like Thorens.
    My mom was a concert pianist and I know what a Steinway should sound like as she practiced five hours a day.
    With the Pro-Ject RPM9 the piano stability playback was a definite problem with a rubber band drive and a LOMC.
    My Technics SL12010 M5G direct drive has no such problem.
    If you know more than I do I will be glad to go buy a better setup.
    I can afford what works.
    Until then I doubt I am hearing replies that are dealing with the subject on its merits...
     
  18. Roycer

    Roycer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wyoming
    sitting here listening to my rubber band drive...I like that expression myself ..Thank You
     
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  19. Roycer

    Roycer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wyoming
    We use to call the new Harleys that had a belt drive Rubber Glide
     
    Old Rusty likes this.
  20. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Speed errors in belt drive is just a bad engineering of mismatched components (platter, bearing, belt, motor). A heavier platter lowers the resonance of the system (rubber band compliance - mass) but does not guarantee better number of wow/flutter.
     
  21. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    It's possible your RPM9 had an under spec'd motor or defective suppose. But it's expensive enough that it shouldn't have. plus, 15 lb platter. Should not be affected by the minimal drag caused by stylus friction really. But, I am not particularly a fan of Pro-Ject and I have never owned one.

    Anyway, I use a DL-103R, one of my favorite cartridges actually, from time to time on my Acoustic Signature, which is driven by a thread, and it doesn't have any issues with speed.

    My feeling on the technics 12X TTs in general is , the direct drive mechanism might be fine, but other aspects of the TT as a whole are not so great, especially the tonearm. Possibly the higher end new ones are better? But in the old(er) days, my experience with the technics models is they all had a pretty significant sound signature that i didn't like.
     
  22. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    I wonder how you guys find time to listen to your records in your fantastic BD or DD turntables.
     
    Bob_in_OKC and Slick Willie like this.
  23. rebellovw

    rebellovw Forum Resident

    Location:
    hell
    Agreed.
     
  24. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    I think the inertia/flywheel effect of the mass helps, but you are correct, it is not a guarantee
     
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