Got a reply from Outlaw Audio. They said that it's perfectly normal for the case to feel warm after it's been on for a while, and based on what I've told them, they don't seem to think that overheating is an issue in this case. So, I don't know.....
If the amp is rapidly recovering it still sounds like a mains power dip to me. Some products are more sensitive to voltage changes, while others work happily over a wider range of input voltages.
But, if that were the case, wouldn't lights dim or other equipment be affected? Perhaps you're saying that the amplifier may be much more sensitive than other devices. Still, I'd think I'd notice something other than the amplifier on the same circuit being affected, and I haven't. When it happened watching TV using the amplifier for the sound output, there was no change in the TV picture. Second, there is a line conditioner between the wall outlet and the amplifier. That hasn't tripped and it's supposed to regulate the voltage anyway. So, again, I'm sceptical. You may be right, I'm just saying I'm not convinced. But thanks for your thoughts.
Do you know for sure that it is actually a power restart versus maybe going momentarily into standby, or the output relays dropping out? Do you see something that looks like power cycle?
Agreed.....if the unit has a contactor/relay it will instantly shut off if the voltage drops and instantly come back on when sufficient voltage returns.
Again, if it were me I'd send it back to get it checked out. While it is gone you can call an electrician to test your outlets. The worst thing that can happen is that the unit fails when it is just out of warranty, then you are hosed. I have a cheaper integrated amp than the Outlaw and it has never, ever gone into protection mode over the years I've owned it, not even when the power transformer box across the street blew up. That is not normal behavior for an integrated.
I don't know how to describe it exactly, but, for example when I turn it on, it takes a moment for it to actually come on (for the display to light up, showing that it is up and ready to go). When it drops out, it's as if it goes into this mode between being off all the way and coming fully on, then it comes fully on again. I'm not sure if that is indicative of anything, but, for what it's worth.
Yes, I agree, that in the end sending it back may be the best thing to do, but it's only about four months old, so I still have at least eight months under warranty and it's on record that the symptom first occurred when the unit was less than two months old, so I'm confident I have plenty of time to diagnose this before resorting to a warranty replacement. Just trying to better understand what's going on in the hope of figuring it out and avoiding a return, but, as you say, that may be what I eventually resort to. I won't let it go out of warranty.
One thing to consider: Our house has solar panels. While we don't get fed electricity directly from the panels (the output of the panels go to the grid and we are fed electricity from the grid--so when there's an actual power outage, we don't benefit from the panels), there is, at the end of the day, as it gets dark, perhaps a "hand-off" when the panels stop generating power. Someone has suggested to me that it might happen when I happen to be listening to the amplifier when the hand-off takes place. I'm going to start keeping track of the time of day when it happens, if it happens again, to see if there might be a connection, but, as I say, we don't get power directly from the panels, so I can't imagine the voltage fluctuation from the panels is ever expressed at the wall outlet. Something to consider anyway.
Unplug the unit from the surge protector/vr thing and plug it directly into wall outlet, then try to replicate the issue. I’d bet your problem goes away.
Thanks very much for starting this thread, CMT. I posted about this to the other 2160 thread just a couple of days after you started the thread, and I hadn't seen your thread yet. Your opening post could have described my own experience to a 'T'. I will reproduce my posts below, though they solve anything. Looks like the warranty is two years, and I have been much too easygoing about it; I'm going to contact them again. I almost wish the shutdowns happened more often so I could piece something together. Someone wondered about the dip in the mains; is this more likely for speakers with lower sensitivity? I've had the shutdown happen with both Philharmonic BMRs and Ascend Sierra-2. It's also happened when I was using an Amazon Fire Stick remote to click through streaming menus (no audio except the clicking of menu surfing), with the Stick plugged into an Oppo 103 running into the 2160 with optical cable. And also again with me touching nothing, with audio running into the Analog 1 from an Oppo 205. A total of 5-6 times in a year. Please keep us up-to-date on what you find out, or hear from Outlaw! My posts from the other thread, nothing new of note:
Have you contacted the manufacturer about this? Please do, if you haven't. They told me no one else had reported this issue. If other people have had it and report it, they may be more proactive in finding a solution--although they have been quite receptive so far.
Likewise, please report this to Outlaw and advise us of what they tell you. The more they hear about this the better. Thanks
That's a little troubling that they told you this, CMT; because I went through their 'Support Center' form and got a case number, and 'Jim' responded to me on 28 May 2019. I will reproduce his response below. (They encouraged me to follow up if the behavior continues, and in fact I haven't done that; though I think it's done it just twice since then, and recently. So it's reasonable that they'd assume I did a factory reset and things had righted themselves. But....yes, somebody had reported through proper channels by late May! Even if that somebody is this nobody.) Thanks again to SHF crew for helpful suggestions. Jim's reply to me: * He was kindly humoring my idle wondering about the Amazon Fire Stick + Oppo 103 + coax, i.e. could the DAC (or something) be somehow triggered by a signal coming in from the Stick/103/coax into restarting the machine. Yes, of course I don't know what I'm talking about. Why am I offering helpful suggestions to Outlaw customer support?
Yes, they recommended the factory reset to me, as well, as you describe, but it's done it twice since then. If you contact them again, please let them know you're in contact with at least one other owner with the same issue. I will do the same.
My question is ultimately if/why there is any resistance to sending it back to Outlaw to have them take a look at the units which may result in repairs or replacements if they are still within the warranty period.
Because I don't want to be without out an amplifier for an extended period if it is something that can be solved without sending it back. As mine is only a few months old, there's still plenty of time to continue to observe this and see if there's a pattern to it before sending it back, still under warranty.
You should ask them up front if they are willing to do a warranty replacement or repair, and if so, ask them exactly how long will it be from the moment they receive it to the moment they ship it out to you so that any incorrect estimates of shipping time is not included.
THe They've already said I can ship it back for them to check it out, if I want to, but they've also said they'd just have to observe it and, because it's been sometimes more than a month between incidents, they said it could be a very long time before they'd be able to figure anything out.
Strongly recommend you try plugging directly into wall outlet and retest. That's a variable I didn't see addressed in the thread. Surge, AVR, UPS devices can all go bad or malfunction. If you send your amp in and they can't recreate, you'll be stuck out of an amp and still have the problem when you get it back. I'm surprised Outlaw didn't have you plug it directly into the wall. I apologize if you tried this and its in the thread and I just missed it.
I seen Octave's post in the other thread and I too have run into this off/on problem. I bought my unit in March 2019. It's only happened 2x since I've had it. Since it was months between incidents I didn't think about it 'til I discovered this forum. Hope this isn't anything real serious, anyway your not the only one. Many Thanks to everybody's contributions. Very Interesting. ps: I was thinking it was an outside source, like my neighbor's garage door remote?? I could be way off base. I don't know that much about it.
Thanks for chiming in. I wonder if you could do me the favor of going to Outlaw's website and just quickly telling them that you've had this issue, too. When I reported it, they hadn't heard about it. If it's happening to more than a few people, it will be best for all of us that they know. --Thanks.
I think this amplifier's protection circuit kicked in and did this. Behaving like this to me. Your description of it running hot points to this behavior later in the thread. Consider this possibility.
Any chance your low sensitivity speakers may be presenting too low an impedance load to the Outlaw? This can cause an amplifier to run hot and risk the protection circuit coming on.
