Star Wars (1977) original Blu ray. Crappier than ever.

The last part of that title makes it sound like the suggestion is to release ALL the versions, as below (reformatting mine):

Five variants a la Blade Runner, which is silly for Star Wars for a number of reasons. Imagine the Disney+ casuals waking up to find that awaiting them.

Otherwise it's an excellent study of the most egregious changes and why some of them are bull$h*t and others are not so bad, if unnecessary.

 

While it's good to see this repeated, this is essentially a rehash of what people have been saying for years?

 

It's nice to have the major points all in one place. TheDigitalBits did breakdowns of the films recently but sometimes going scene by scene to find all the changes can be a slog, even after someone's done the legwork.

 

Yes, but it's harder for Disney/Lucasfilm to ignore it when a publication as big as Wired does a story like this. That carries some weight.

 

Most of the scripts are out there, and you can also read this book:


https://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-Star-Wars/dp/0978465237

 

I think there is an opportunity to create a really special Original trilogy box set and even have a solid 3-year theatrical run just by restoring the theatrical versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, And The Return of the Jedi. I think I've proposed this many pages ago but I still think the idea of having a box set that has the original theatrical cuts, the Special edition theatrical cuts and perhaps you could have the George cut as well in an elaborate box set would be quite good. You could do a really good feature-length documentary about film restoration and then put the films out in theaters with a new take on that great trailer they did for the special editions. You could even record a brand new commentary track, not sort of edited together with interviews but get a handful of people in a room with microphones and have them watch the film, those are always the best commentary tracks I've found.

 

there's one glaring issue with the 1997 Special Edition versions, particularly in Empire:

 

That's all very well, but I'm not going to order a book just on the off chance that it tells me if that one sentence was a replacement for something else.
At any rate, the fourth draft doesn't have anything different - thank you, ringmaster. Maybe there were other reasons.

 

It was quite a bizarre change to make, would it really be that hard to have Mark come in and do some screaming for 30 minutes? ...still, I guess it's better than Jedi Rocks.

 

Well, the OTHER thing against all this tinkering - apart from technical reasons - is that you can't take the seventies out of Star Wars. There's for example the hair. There's the story pace. There's the single lightsabre battle which by today's standards is very unexciting. So it will always HAVE to be "warts and all" - if these things are warts at all, that is.

And the same thing applies to overall quality - no matter how personal everyone's opinion, you can't change performances (OK, theoretically they could, but then you're halfway a remake) or storylines. For me, ROTJ will always be squishy bears versus the SS, with meanwhile some dire acting from some of the cast. Sure, the squishy bears now have eyelids. It won't change a movie; it won't save it.

 

I can't pretend that I have made millions of dollars, or even have been paid for a story even once. But... I do think the franchise, during the prequel years, shot itself in the foot by trying to connect so much to the original trilogy.
At the end of III everyone is in position for IV... Tarkin is standing there watching the death star... The ship with captain Antillies or whatever... all ready to do... except that Luke is just 3 weeks old!
Plus, the movie hás to do weird stuff just in order to get there. "Oh, luckily we have an iron lung all ready to go, this model just happens to vaguely resemble a stylised samurai (almost as if it's coming from some hidden fortress). All the other colours are sold out. Shall we do the black one then?".
So presumably there might be more people there with the same suit? But they just hád to show Darth Vader. (Who somehow doesn't turn on the emperor, who tried to kill Padmé for ages, even though his love is supposed to be his motivation.)

If they'd left a bit of a gap, well... Less is more, and all that. It's like when you're telling a lie and you're giving far too many details. Just keep it simple and do NOT explain some parts.

Another consequence is that you have to watch IV-VI, I-III now. The surprises of V are otherwise gone (Yoda/Vader). At best it becomes a "suspense" thing now.


So, yeah, Lucas is the Edison of movie making. Commercially sound, but best when he's borrowing other people's ideas.

 

Oh jeez... I knew the 'revised' versions were a mess, but that article really puts it in perspective... what a clusterfudge Lucas turned his saga into after arguably getting it so (largely) right to begin with against all the odds ... and the worst thing is that article only mentioned the more (general) grievous examples, not a complete rundown of the foolhardy and wrong-headed changes that Uncle George made.

I have a soft spot for the prequels - as I've stated here numerous times, perhaps even ad nauseam - despite the discrepancies, contradictions, and inconsistencies with the Original Trilogy and all of their innumerable flaws, there is a dynamite story in potential absolutely worth telling onscreen there... but at the end of the day, the only Star Wars that matters to me, the only Star Wars that counts and is canon to my own personal estimation, opinion, and future watches is the OT theatrical versions, period... they're not part of the story, they ARE the story; complete and whole and singular... no prequels, no sequels, no spin-offs, no so-called 'Special Editions'... a mythic, thrilling, rousing, fulfilling three-act story with a beginning, middle, and end that needed no further embellishment or continuation thereafter.

Once Lucasfilm/Disney come to their senses and figure out what they have there - purely in terms of a lucrative new revenue stream if nothing else! - and stand up to George's ideologically-driven cultural and historical revisionist (some might even say vandalistic) tendencies, give the existing OT theatrical version IP's a brand new 4K scan, a meticulous frame-by-frame remastering (leaving the substantive content of said films untouched and unaltered, mistakes and all), and a new release on both physical formats and streaming... then and only then I'll drop 'em a few bucks their way... until then, no deal, Mr Bond.

It's not personal, it's only business ...

 

Again, pretty much all the original camera negative for the original Star Wars survives, and it would be possible to do a "patchwork" job, scanning everything and then doing a digital 4K conform using an uncut 1977 print or IP as reference. In rare cases where certain shots are badly damaged, they can slug in or recreate the right shots with dupe elements like INs or IPs. My guess is there's probably 2000 shots in the first film, and I don't think there's more than a couple of dozen shots that you'd have to rebuild or fix that way. The rest of it will need a lot of clean up, steadying, and grain management. But you don't necessarily have to use IPs for the whole thing.

The prequels are a problem. Ret-conning an epic story this massive, and trying to get it all to make sense and justify everything that happens and everything that follows, would be a massive job even if you had a roomful of Oscar-winning writers to work on it for several years. And Lucas didn't have that kind of time and talent at his disposal.

I think all the Star Wars movies matter, and you have to see an audience much greater than yourself and realize it's a big world out there. There are fans who grew up with the prequels and accepted them as part of the story, and some even point out that the 1970s films are dated and a little creaky in terms of story, characters, and technology. I think a lot of opinions boil down to how old you were when you watched the films, and that's bound to affect your perception. But I also take into consideration that Lucas was 25 years older when he tackled the prequels, so he was a different guy, too. Vastly different.

You asked for info, I gave you info.

 

I don't care about the "originals" anymore. I have the 2006 DVD releases - good enough for me - they're only a curiosity/reference.

 

For all the prequels' shortcomings, this was the main problem in giving them episode numbers. Someone coming in a Star Wars 'virgin' would have some stuff completely spoilt if they watch them in episodic order. It's definitely a case of original trilogy first, then whatever else.

A still imperfect compromise might be this running order: IV, I, V, II, III, VI.

 

Yeah, I thought of that, and under normal circumstances, all things being equal, you would be absolutely correct... but any restoration of the 1977 film's original theatrical version is not a 'normal' circumstance by virtue of what was done during the initial restoration in the mid-1990's;

As I've discussed before with your good self, Marc, one of the four film stocks used on the '77 film - Kodak 5249; an Intermediate stock used for 62 optical composite shots in that film - had deteriorated to the point of being unusable, and thus those shots (among many others in the full course of that process) were completely re-composited from scratch using the original elements. Thus using the existing O-neg and simply dropping in theatrical version shots sourced from the IP or whatever isn't going to do it if you want a 'pure' newly-restored version of the OT theatrical versions as originally released and seen back in the day(s)... George Lucas was absolutely truthful when he said those versions simply don't exist in negative form anymore, and never can again... but he was being somewhat disingenuous when he and others in the highest echelons of Lucasfilm said it would take too much time and money to prepare remastered versions thereof... the IP's could have been scanned and remastered for no more than a million bucks and three months of work tops per film to get right (pin-registered scan>remastering>final grading and timing).

Just out of interest, Marc, if Lucasfilm rang you up tomorrow and asked you to be the senior colorist/supervisor on a remastering of the OT theatrical versions, what approach would you (with all your extensive experience) take? 2K or 4K? IP's solely or IN's, dupe negs, 35mm prints, etc, as well? What reference would you use for final color timing and grading (original Technicolor prints, for example)? Would you keep all the optical effect artifacts, 'clean up' some of the more overt ones, or clean all of them up and make the films look as flawless as possible? At what point would you consider when correction becomes revision? Would you consult George Lucas on his opinions if given the choice, being as you already were there when he personally oversaw the 2004 DVD remasterings, and if he gave his views, would you take them on board or do what you felt was right?

You've been promoted, Marc (at least in the hypothetical)... step up to the plate, man, and do us proud, you're our only hope ...

 

Fixed

 

Unless I'm completely misremembering, that added scream isn't on the new 4K...

 

It hasn't been there in any official release since the creation of the 2K masters for DVD in 2003/2004.

 

No, you told me where I could potentially find info, without saying if there was anything to be found in the first place.

If I am going to be argumentative, I might as well go all the way then! Possibly that's overestimating the task a bit. It's not actually retconning; nothing needs to be changed. There are works that have pulled this off more or less succesfully. The Godfather, that 6th Narnia book, the 2nd season of Spartacus (2006). Solo and Rogue One managed OK too.
And basically, some time around 1980 it was decided that Star Wars was IV, so they had had almost twenty years.

No, I think it could have been better. I saw a lot of missed chances in III. What, for example, if the separatists had turned out to be the original rebels? That would have been some irony!

Almost needless to say, it's just my opinion. I can find fault in anything, if I try hard enough!

 

Maybe GL realized how stupid an addition it was! (Now if we could only get him to make a similar realization about the 8,547 other stupid things he changed...)

 

One of my favorite Expanded Universe (now Legends) pieces is the "Infinities" series postulating basically what it would be like if certain things went terribly wrong in each Original Trilogy film. The ROTJ story ends with both Luke and Leia aboard the Death Star for the final confrontation with the Emperor, and along the way Vader repents and begs forgiveness for his evil. Cue a rescued Anakin Skywalker aboard the Rebel flagship in a white version of Darth Vader's suit.



it's nuts but it's also hilarious but it's also kinda great.

 

Thanks! I can recognize changes made to the original films readily - since I saw those a skillion times pre-1997 - but I'm not as conversant on changes made after the SEs in 1997.

Except "Maclunkey", of course!

 

Well there you have it: The Definitive Collection! We're done here, boys.

 

Well, there are other universes with this problem. Skynet must have spent considerable resources to actually put living human flesh over a metal skeleton. The earlier terminators with rubber faces failed - it's mentioned. So they do have to go all the way. Blood vessels, convincing eyes, skin, nails. Very very complicated things to create, that are both completely unnecessary and unnatural for computers/machines. All this to infiltrate enemy lines. Heck, the time travel was probably the easy part.

And then they give them all the same face.

They didn't even mention the added ewok eyelids. Well, OK, in some ways it's very inobtrusive. It's no "who blinked first".

But at the same time, that's exactly why it's such a pointless thing. It had most people going "Okay... eh, why?".