Star Wars coming to Blu-ray!

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Bryan, Jan 6, 2011.

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  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    In other words it is soft and yucky looking, just like the re-release in 1997. Gawd awful.
     
  2. Derek Gee

    Derek Gee Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    Has he said something different about that in the last week or so? If so, where?

    Derek
     
  3. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Hey, he's the director/writer/movie-owner. I was as tactful as I was with any mastering client. Believe me, we went through every shot (roughly 2800, I think) for weeks at a time. I think Episode 4 and Jedi took about 7-8 weeks to do -- and that was just letterbox only.

    George only came in during the mornings on Tuesdays and Thursdays and would approve new shots, review old shots, and revise stuff as needed. The rest of the time, I just used my best judgement to get the shots in the ballpark. But everything you see is 100% what he wanted. The 2004 version was the first (and so far, the only) time that the home video transfers were exactly what the director intended you to see.

    Wayneklein earlier is correct: they pretty much have 2K scans of everything, even some trims and unused scenes, so master copies exist in a sense. But the original Kodak 5247 camera negatives are extremely beat-up and turning magenta (fading yellow & cyan layers), and it's not going to last much longer.

    The problem is, the restoration was only done on the new version, not the unused shots from the original "classic" version. The expense of cleaning all those up and then conforming the 1977 version would be pretty astronomical.

    George is on record as saying, in his opinion, the movie has never been finished to his liking. Since he owns it 100%, and essentially created all of it, he's entitled to do what he wants. This is no different than a rock musician going back and remixing his or her own work, or an artist reworking one of his old paintings. If they own the rights and the work itself... case closed. The public doesn't get to vote -- except in terms of not buying it.

    Interestingly, the 2010 documentary The People vs. George Lucas is still not out on DVD. Lucas allowed the movie to be shown in theaters, but beyond that... [​IMG]
     
  4. paulisme

    paulisme I’m being sarcastic

    Location:
    Charleston SC
    Look at the post just above my original post.
     
  5. paulisme

    paulisme I’m being sarcastic

    Location:
    Charleston SC
    As much as I hate the special editions, I totally agree that Lucas has the right to do whatever he wants with the films since they're his. And I will be voting with my not buying them.
     
  6. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    The thing of interest is going to be how much they change the 04 scans. The films colors have always been off on VHS and LD.
    Vidiot, do you think that the final 04 version reflected the original film (instead of George's wishes) in any way in regards to color? Comparing to photos of prints, cells, and even over saturating the 06 bonus release it doesn't match.
    And what's to stop them from going to one of the IB prints that have been floating around?
     
  7. Mellenhead

    Mellenhead Active Member

    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Me too. Can't beat the price imo.
     
  8. ziggysane

    ziggysane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vid, I have the same question. The original trilogy all appear to skew towards a blue/cool tint (forgive my lay assessment), despite being worked on by different colorists. (At one point a fan had comparison shots but I don't know where to find them anymore). Is that a result of attempting to remedy the reddish tint of the negatives due to aging?
     
  9. I have to say I agree with Vidiot on this--Lucas owns the films. They were his work. They belong to him. If he chooses to mess with them again, that's his choice. As members of the audience we may feel we are entitled to see them the way WE want but that's not the reality of the situation.

    Having said that Lucas could have kept the original version of the trilogy pre-CGI fixed out of print on DVD if he had wanted to. He didn't. While the original versions certainly deserve to be preserved and restored it's unlikely we'll see that happen due to the damage caused by the passage of time. It would be pretty expensive to redo them and in Lucas' mind they were imperfect versions of what he wanted so he doesn't see a need to do it.

    It would be nice to see both versions seamlessly branched on one Blu-ray disc but it's unlikely to ever happen IMHO.
     
  10. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Yeah, I was in a room that was just down the hall from the big screening room in Building C at the old Kerner Blvd. facility. We occasionally would adjourn and go down there and compare what I was doing to a print. Now, I think these were the 1997 prints, but those were timed and supervised by George at the lab. Again, it's all a subjective call; these are not absolutes in terms of right or wrong. Lucas is very, very astute when it comes to photographic issues; he actually lit part of Star Wars himself (like the trash compactor scene), so he knows color timing backwards, forwards and sideways.

    They lean towards what the director wanted. I did most of Jedi, all of New Hope, along with Rich Garibaldi doing some of the final touches; Natasha Leonett and Rich did Empire. But we all worked in the same room and could see each other's work as still frames. All three of us are credited on the bonus disc.

    We'll traditionally lean the whites towards blue to give them a "whiter" look, and I did that in the opening shots of New Hope because of the corridors and stormtroopers. On a monitor set to 6500-degree whites, it's going to look fine; on a consumer monitor with very bluish whites, it'll be too blue. I watched the DVDs (and seen the 2K digital projection), and they look fine to me.
     
  11. TheCassidy

    TheCassidy New Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    @ Vidiot - are you aware of, and have you ever visited the Forums at originaltrilogy.com?

    Your info would be very interesting to a lot of people over there who critique the work, often baseless, and go to great lengths to "correct the films" themselves.

    You should check it out sometime, if you haven't already.
     
  12. Derek Gee

    Derek Gee Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    I guess I didn't interpet that as backing down. Lucas wasn't lying when he said the negatives were destroyed in creating the Special Edition. Those negatives are now incorporated in the SE negatives (with the exception of the original effects negatives that faded).

    I've always assumed he could reissue them from some other elements (e.g. interpositive, internegative), but they won't look as good as from the O-negative.

    He could take all these restored pieces and try to recreate the original version on video, but I have no confidence that could be done without mistakes.

    So that leaves us with what we have - old Laserdisc masters transferred to DVD. I don't expect Lucasfilm to ever spend any more money to improve those versions, as much as I would like to see that done.

    Derek
     
  13. mdm08033

    mdm08033 Senior Member

    You insult my bedpost!

    Cheers, Michael
     
  14. minerwerks

    minerwerks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    Some fascinating stuff goes on there. I never read so much discussion about the various sound mixes of ANH. But I have to give it to some of the participants who restored the mono mix and approximated what the 70mm six track mix would have sounded like.
     
  15. ziggysane

    ziggysane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Very interesting info on Lucas.

    All of you being in the same room would explain the consistency in coloring. I will give the DVDs another view on my TV. I popped Jedi into my laptop last night, and despite my ongoing efforts to correct the color settings the computer screen is definitely less accurate than my TV and BD player.

    You wouldn't happen to know why the prequels skew towards red/pink (on the HD broadcasts) would you?

    Thank you for taking the time to explain your work to all of us. :wave: I know it can come off as critical sometimes.
     
  16. Bryan

    Bryan Starman Jr. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Look, no one is denying that George Lucas has the ultimate say when it comes to his own work. Some of us just wish he would also respect the original theatrical versions of the films and give them the care they deserve, if anything just for historical purposes. Put out BOTH versions.
     
  17. TheCassidy

    TheCassidy New Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    That's the real head scratcher for me, as well.

    BR tech would allow him to create seamless branching of all versions of the movies which would make for a fascinating insight into his process.

    I mean, fan editors and preservationists have done wonders with laserdiscs and DVD's - all on a dime. Why can't LFL?

    I quite enjoy the tinkerings and new things that Lucas comes up with, but none of us expected in 1997 that the versions we grew up with and loved were gone...
     
  18. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443

    Correct.
    Grain is an inherent part of the physical nitrate [film]. It should not be f-ed with. Once you do you can never get back the fine detail that is lost. Grain is present on every non-digital movie ever shown in a theater, removing for home video is amateurish. One exception: films culled from different tape sources [most common in pre-WWII movies] may need some grain matching. Although even then I say don't do it just put a disclaimer in the case.
     
  19. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Agreed. Lucus can do whatever he wants but won't get my money as a result. In fact I'd bet his revisionist BS costs him more sales then anything else. Not that it matters to that SOB, he lost touch with reality decades ago.
     
  20. sparkydog

    sparkydog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kentucky
    You mean RCD (Richard Carpenter Disorder)? ;)
     
  21. Paradiddle

    Paradiddle Forum Resident

    :righton: I just can't for the life of me understand why he's so dogmatic about this (aside from the expense issue, which I can understand) when EVERY OTHER DVD release of a film with multiple versions (e.g., Blade Runner, Alien, Close Encounters, E.T.) have ALWAYS included the original theatrical version. It just boggles my mind that he's so "ashamed" of the original films and sees no need to preserve them.
     
  22. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    I was actually just going over there to post some of this info...
     
  23. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Thanks for the info.
     
  24. none

    none New Member

    Location:
    Edgemont, NY, USA
    Since there is/was a discrepancy between consumer monitors and consumer TVs, has the industry gone back and attempted to bring the two sides closer together?
     
  25. ziggysane

    ziggysane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Hey Vid: I watched excerpts of the DVD on my "neutral as I can get it" TV, and it didn't look too blue at all! I didn't compare is side by side with the original, but on my screen it by no means looked tinted. I agree with the others that the color on Luke's lightsaber is off inside the Falcon, but I think you said that you did the coloration with the expectation that they would redo the lightsaber effects?

    -

    Also, for anyone who just wants the non-doctored films and can live without the PCM soundtrack, pick up a copy of the Trilogy budget DVD set while it's still in print and really cheap ($22.49!). It's the best non-bootleg quality you're likely to see for quite a while.
     
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