Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker*

I know this is correct, but have always wondered why that is. Gone With The Wind for instance adjusted for inflation outsold all of these by far. Why is Jaws considered the first blockbuster then?

 

How ‘Jaws’ Forever Changed the Modern Day Blockbuster — And What Today’s Examples Could Learn From It

 

Ok...I should have said a majority of the people who SAW it. However my point still stands. TFA would not have made the money it did if people were apathetic or dislike it. You don't get to nearly a billion in the US alone and 2.5 billion worldwide largely without China without people going back again and again,and it wasnt just the Star Wars diehards. People genuinely loved TFA. Same can be said about both RO and TLJ. The later two wasn't as widely embraced, but again,you don't break a billion if a majority who saw it didn't like it and decided to see it more than once. TLJ may have angered a loud plurality of the die hards,but they aren't the general audience who drives the box office. We will see what happens with IX but it's very unlikely at this point it doesn't top a Billion.

The thing is as long as a movie is entertaining, no one cares whether the motivation is to tell a story or just make money. At the end of the day,as long as people enjoy it and find joy in it,does it really matter if dollars is the main reason it was made? I guarantee you that if the films landed for you ,you and you others probably wouldn't give a rats ass whether Disney made it to line their pockets or not. The only reason you care is because you simply don't care for it, which is fine on its own. There's no way to please everyone. However it's a bit self rightous to decry that all Disney cares for is money and imply thus these films shouldn't exist because of that fact,when if it satisfied you as a fan you wouldn't be talking about how Disney is evil for making money when it came to Star Wars. You'd be still the happy fan quietly consuming the movies .

Note I did say "since the early days of Hollywood". I was accounting for Gone With The Wind. But as pointed out, Jaws changed the game,and Star Wars just took it all another step higher.

 

The Battle for ‘Star Wars’

 

I've never said these films shouldn't exist.
I've stated that I will go and see it as it's the final film in a series.
What I have stated is that they are rubbish, same as Lucas' prequels.
I've enjoyed films made by Disney in the past.
All Disney is interested in is making money.
That wasn't Lucas main aim even though his second trilogy was just as krap as Disney's first.
My point is this idea kicked around all the time that the quality of a film is related to the amount of money it takes at the box office.
I can only assume this is a cultural thing.
'We' are now appeasing a 'questionable' regime in China in order to make more money.
Makes one wonder what other 'questionable' regimes would also be appeased in order to make money.

Already said that.

 

Well at least you are consistent. It seems you are an OT purest which gives me a little more insight in where you are coming from. At least you aren't one of the people that hated the prequels and now suddenly hail them as masterpieces because" Disney Bad" or "Kathy Kennedy is a feminazi who wants to kill all white men" or whatever a certain segment of fandom dream up as a reason to be total asshats to their fellow fans and the creatives involved with Star Wars.

I guess I can appreciate the Prequels for what they are and not get upset over what they aren't ,and I actually rate Revenge of the Sith a few clicks higher than Return of the Jedi. So there's that I guess. Even when TPM came out and the early precursors to the current irate fandom were proclaiming that the prequels ruined the OT retroactively I thought that view point was completely childish and over the top as I do with the people railing against the Sequels today.

Nothing can ruin ones memories or enjoyment of past movies unless one lets it. The OT is what it is. They were good movies that set the template for modern Hollywood for better or worse. They aren't the Holy Bible or sacred texts. I've never regarded them as such,so I don't get bent out of shape when a new instalment comes out that doesn't transport me back to when I was 10 watching the OT on VHS for the first time. I'm starting to think I'm a minority in that regard when it comes to fandom.

Sorry for the ramble but I guess I felt like I needed to explain how I look at things in regards to this.

In the most condescending way possible to said people...but ok. Whatever. I guess we sorta kinda agree on that at least.

 

Why does there always have to be this off-the-wall rationalization? Can't you just admit what everybody knows, which is that the prequels were crap?

Yes, I saw the OT when I was a kid. No, "warm fuzzies" I felt then have nothing whatsoever to do with my ability to evaluate the films now.

 

Because.... not everyone thinks the prequels were complete crap? They weren't overall as good as the originals and have their weaknesses for sure but not "everyone knows". There's no hive mind in fandom .

I think TPM has the seeds of a great movie if not for Jar Jar and wooden dialogue and acting due to poor direction from Lucas. AOTC is the weaknest of the series to date IMO,but had a pretty fun last act that redeems it. I have gone on the record that Revenge of the Sith as messy and flawed as it is ,is a better instalment than Return of the Jedi. And I'm not the only one who feels that way. The Prequels aren't masterpieces,but maybe Empire Strikes Back aside,neither was the OT overall. Nostalgia is a powerful blinder to flaws .


But I was speaking more about the over the top reactions to the sequels. Which I guess sort of applies. A very vocal segment of the fandom has deluded themselves into thinking their opinion must absolutely be the opinion of the entire fandom and anyone that disagrees can't possibly feel that way and those that disagree the sequels destroyed Star Wars for ever either must be in denial (what you are implying with my not agreeing that the prequels are without merit) or be on Lucasfilm/Disney's payroll (I.E. the "shill" allegation that keeps popping up from the Fandom Menace types ). You don't get to tell me how to feel and Visa versa. You get to like what you like and so do I without judgement. I don't care if you hate the prequels or sequels but I find it curious that from your reaction it seems to bother you that I find merit and enjoyment in both.

Note I never said "Everyone who dislikes anything beyond the OT does so because of unfair expectations" I said "many". I don't presume that everyone who hates the new films or the prequels does so because they are disappointed that it doesn't bring them back to their childhoods. However,from what I've seen and read over the past 20 years or so since TPM came out and all the proclamations that "X destroyed or ruined my childhood!" Leads me to believe that is indeed a factor in how a great number of the people react extremely negativily to the Star Wars movies released post 1983 reach that conclusion.

 

I agree that the prequels are interesting but fatally flawed...but again, Lucas clearly had a story he wanted to tell.

What creative person is driving this new sequel trilogy? Don't tell me Kathy Kennedy...

 

JJ Abrams? Larry Kasdan (you know....the guy who was George's right hand when writing Empire and Jedi) ? Rian Johnson?

I mean,you may not like what direction these guys have taken the story or like the story they are telling,but they do seem fairly passionate about telling the stories they are telling in each individual movie especially Johnson. In fact that's one of the complaints against Johnson by the sequel haters ,that he was too concerned with telling the story he wanted to tell to play ball and open JJ's mystery boxes. Which is it? Was Johnson just a drone following orders and towing the line or was he someone who actually set out to tell a certain story that he was going to tell by hook or by crook?

Of course KK and Iger aren't storytellers. No one said they were or claimed they were. It's just like expecting the heads of 20th Century Fox to be involved with mapping out a story for the originals and prequels. Iger's responsibility is to the shareholders and KKs job has been to hire the people who she thought,good or bad, would make the best movies and try to be arms length. Of course shes made mistakes in hiring the wrong people sometimes and making changes when stuff under way,which is one of her problems, but to condemn her because she's not by trade a film maker and a story teller? A bit unfair.

I do think in the future KK or whomever takes over Lucasfilm should put someone in charge that directly oversees the creative side of things,someone who is a storyteller by trade like Lucas arguably was once. However I still don't think it's necessary to have some several year grand plan like Marvel because,contrary to popular belief, Lucas never had a grand plan for Star Wars and approached each movie individually for the most part. Yeah he had a vague idea but he improvised through all six films.

 

You're not the only one, I completely agree with you on this, except for main character deaths like Han Solo and Luke Skywalker!

 

Interesting read. I'll have to check out the other entries:

'Star Wars' rewatch: 'The Force Awakens' misses its own sharp points

 

Like we'd said before, 20th Century Fox was only involved when the time came for film distribution, as an independent filmmaker George Lucas had complete creative control.

George Lucas didn't make major hiring/firing mistakes like Kathleen Kennedy has done with Star Wars when Lucasfilm was his production company.

 

Or maybe Star Wars was never meant to be a James Bond/Marvel series that can sustain 20+ movies. It is so shot through with George Lucas's sensibility that I don't think it can artistically thrive without him. Can it still make money? Sure. But, as Steven Spielberg observed, "I would never make an Indiana Jones film without George Lucas. That'd be insane."

 

Annnnd Rey and Finn throw Rian Johnson under the bus:

Fans React to J.J. Abrams and ‘Rise of Skywalker’ Actors Questioning Rian Johnson’s ‘Last Jedi’ Approach

 

Perhaps you should post a link to the original New York Times article rather than a link to a click bait article taking bits out of it without full context to Foster a headline that just so happens to align with your view.

All Daisy Ridley says is that she missed working with John Boyega and thus she didn't have as much fun filming TLJ,and that she enjoyed this one more because she got to work with the crew she worked with on TFA.

All Boyega said is that he personally disagreed with some of the creative choices made and he and Mark Hamill discussed it. He also missed working with Daisy. Thats it.

But that upsets the narrative that they threw Johnson under the bus.

Of course this is the same type of reporting that turned Mark Hamill having understandable misgivings about the direction taken with Luke Skywalker in TLJ into Mark Hamill hating the entire movie and hating Rian Johnson's guts. Of course what's left out of all that is that he's friends with Johnson in real life, they follow each other on social media and like and retweet each other's posts and Mark recently attended the Knives out premiere in support of the man that supposedly ruined Luke Skywalker.

So....yeah nothing is being thrown under the bus here. Except maybe context and perspective. However I'm not surprised.

 

Don't forget "Disney paid him off to change his tune". It's a wonderful accessory to the tin foil.

 

No... not just payed him off...they threatened his family and his pets! Disney held his wife hostage! Just like Disney brainwashed Harrison Ford into saying nice things about The guy who replaced him in the SOLO movie.

No joke ...I've actually debated people elsewhere that actually seriously believe both of those.

Damn Disney and their brainwashing assassins!

 

Sorry, I was out of free articles for the month.

 

Ha. Good excuse .

 

For sure George has big shoes to fill,but as with any property that outlives it's original creator,Star Wars can flourish. It's just a question of hiring the right people. The universe he created is bigger than him,and he wanted it to have life after him. If he didn't,he simply would never even entertained selling.

The evidence that Star Wars can exist without him and even still tell worthy stories set within the universe he created is in the vast EU that filled the vaccum after ROTJ and before he made the prequels. Even though they were never regarded by George as Canon,and a lot of them are forgettable,there are some great and unique stories there to read. While Disney chose not to adapt that material virbatim for obvious reasons,the material still exists and for a decade or more,was the only Star Wars there was outside of the OT.

I think it actually does George and his creation disservice to make a blanket statement that it can't and shouldn't survive without him. For his shortcomings as a director and storyteller,he created a fleshed out universe that all kinds of stories can be told in. The Mandalorian is but one example of many.

 

Didn't George famously assume Disney was using his story outlines for the next round of movies?

I don't know much about the EU. Did it ever move beyond the whole Rebellion vs. Empire dynamic the sequels haven't gotten past?

I also don't know about a "fleshed out universe," that show is pretty fan service-y. And its 2 breakout characters are a Boba Fett doppelgänger and a baby Yoda. They're pretty much playing in the same sandbox as always...

 

A somewhat ironic statement given your avatar... 'nuff said.

The Secret History of Star Wars

I think you pretty much nailed it there and I feel largely the same way... as many people have stated before, the ideas and (very) broad story arc wasn't the problem in the prequels, it was the overall execution. TPM could have been solid overall with better writing/direction, AOTC could be redeemed with a much tighter edit (it's 15 minutes too long and rambling as is), whilst ROTS is the third best 'Wars film next to the 1977 film and Empire, even with it's flaws...

 

I'd put ROTS far, far behind The Last Jedi, which has what every film since Empire largely lacks - losses that make you feel something and lots of plans and plots on the part of the characters going completely, horribly wrong.