Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Classicolin, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    I disagree with absolutely none of that... you're absolutely correct; I was just trying to see if they could have made sense of Palps' return somehow.

    Ultimately they didn't, it was a load of badly-written fan-fiction and made no logical narrative sense at all... I've been saying that since December, don't get me wrong.

    Palps is my absolute favourite SW character (delightfully evil sonuvabitch that he is/was!)... but again, his story - and the chronological SW story overall - ended with Return of the Jedi... I'm good with that, movin' on... 'nuff said.
     
  2. questrider

    questrider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Middle, Nowhere
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  3. markreed

    markreed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Imber
    I'm quoting from my review - not sure if I have posted a link to this yet - but..

    "But by the standards of a well constructed narrative, The Rise of Skywalker is an abject failure. It's creative cowardice, designed by committee, bled of personality, and devoid of invention. There's no story to tell, and not only does it chicken out of every narratively solid but unpopular choice of the previous film, it actively works to undermine the choices with spineless fanservice.

    If nothing else, there’s a scene about halfway through where we think a major character who has been in eight previous movies dies. It has powerful emotional weight : and we see that on the faces of the characters. But as an audience we are kept in suspense for two scenes, and about five minutes. And not only that, but the affected characters find out eventually the true fate. We – as viewers – should have found out the same time the characters did. Otherwise we have lazy, incompetent storytelling that doesn’t know how to tell a story correctly.

    Characters have memory wipes. But you know, it’s not long later we find out there’s a backup memory they can access. There are no true stakes. Nothing is truly lost.

    Palp's return is incoherently and unsatisfyingly explained with handwavium It doesn’t make any sense that somehow, he was scooped up from the bottom of the Death Star after falling several miles, and flown away from it in the few short minutes before it blew up, and nursed back to health. Palpatine is dead. His return is the kind of nonsensie that JJ Abrams, and his often incompetent apprentice Damon Lindelof have excelled in. Never think about what makes sense or could happen, always, always do what is cool, man. By the way, here’s some Snokes-In-A-Jar so you think that Snoke was just a clone.

    Palpatine should be a Force ghost, pulling strings and controlling puppets from beyond the grave in much the same way that Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke exist beyond the dead. And frankly, this film squandered the enormous potential for a Ghost Luke, and Ghost Palpatine, to have a battle.

    And Rey being Palaptine’s Grand-daughter? Nonsense. It completely castrates and devalues everything Rian Johnson worked hard to do ; to democratise and unravel The Force as no longer source of a feted bloodline but as a random and beautiful gift. (And, of course, if The Force is only fated to exist in select few familial bloodlines, how come there’s so many species that have immense Force powers?). Not only that, but somehow that Palps now wants to possess his own grand-daughter as a conduit for all the Sith? That doesn’t make sense. But nothing does anymore. Cool. Here’s some FORCE LIGHTNING, KIDS!

    And *that kiss*. It’s awful. Might as well have Spock and Kirk make out. It makes a nonsense of the characters and the rest of the two and a half films.

    This is a safe film, laboratory bred in sterile conditions, designed for demographics, resting on impossible coincidences and unconvincing plot developments. It’s not a coherent story, or a satisfying ending.

    Fanfiction has never been so... squalid. It's poorly constructed, narrative gibberish, that is creatively useless."
     
  4. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    In other words, it is a typical Disney movie...
     
  5. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    The Ring-bearer speaks truth... you can't know something in a film if the frikkin' filmmakers didn't even think it important enough to actually tell you :rolleyes:...

    Stated better than I ever could (and I do copy-writing as my job!)... bravo!

    Also... "handwavium" is great... I'm gonna nick... er, use it if you don't mind... the royalty check is in the mail, you know I'm good for it.

    I'm also gonna stop talking about this bloody film and trilogy a a whole... oh okay, just one more comment...

    The Sequel Trilogy in nutshell.

    There... done and done... and I mean done.

    :tiphat:
     
  6. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
    Star Wars is never EVER done.

    Star Wars: Project Luminous Concept Art Reveals Jedi of the High Republic

    See you at the theater in two years. :-popcorn:
     
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  7. gabacabriel

    gabacabriel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
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  8. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    I’m trying to see this as ‘glass half full’. For my money, some of the best Star Wars story telling outside of the classic trilogy was Timothy Zahn’s Heir to the Empire trilogy and Drew Karpyshyn’s writing on the first Knights of the Old Republic video game. The writing on the various 2015 onwards Marvel Comics series has varied between ok and pretty good (thank you Marvel Unlimited for including the Star Wars comics in the subscription).
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  9. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Luke Skywalker hasn't been the end all be all of Star Wars since 1983. It's like saying that Star Trek was done when the original Star Trek crew retired.

    It'll continue on and continue to do well. Like it or not,Star Wars is never going away.

    If Star Wars,in its infancy ,could survive the horror that was the Holiday Special and the first two prequels,it'll survive anything long-term.

    Let's be real. In spite of the fan backlash,in spite of lukewarm mainstream reviews and in spite of it making no noise at all in China,The Rise of Skywalker still made $1.07 billion dollars. Was it probably less than Disney's high hopes? Sure. However I doubt anyone at Lucasfilm or Disney is all that upset how it did ultimately. It was still a big movie.


    Now whether or not you personally want to see more Star Wars that's up to the individual. Although frankly I find a majority of those who proclaim the loudest of how done they are with something are not actually really "done". In my opinion if one doesn't care about something,they just stop talking about it rather than keep telling people how done they are with something as if that person is trying to convince themselves they are done.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  10. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    This actually looks promising. I sort of wish that instead of making a sequel trilogy ( that, let's face it,unless it was as brilliant as EMPIRE,was ultimately going to end up hated by roughly half of the hard core fandom, because,well,Star Wars fandom) that Disney Lucasfilm led with this. This has a lot of potential to still give the general audience the classic Star Wars feel they want and respond enthusiastically to,while introducing new characters and settings that aren't constrained by the often unattainable and unreasonable expectations that are attached to Luke and Co. I know this is a book and other media series for now,but a Star Wars movie or movies set within this era has potential to be great.
     
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  11. gabacabriel

    gabacabriel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I'll remind you of this quote when the next Star Wars movie tanks :)
     
  12. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I think Star Wars will be one of those things like Superman, where it gets done well, then it gets done badly, then somebody brings it back, then it fails, then they do it as a TV show, then that goes away, then years later they try it again as a different movie... and so on. After Solo, I thought, "man, maybe this thing is gonna fall apart...", but then I saw Mandalorian and thought, "well, maybe it can work well as a TV show." So you never know. But the core of the idea has been around for 100 years: just action/adventure, big sets, great relationshi0s between the characters, self-sacrifice, and so on.
     
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  13. Jrr

    Jrr Forum Resident

    I think you’re right. And as such, the magic is gone.
     
  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    It can always come back again. All you need is talented writers, producers, directors, and actors, plus a studio that gives them the freedom to do something great. Don't forget, Warner Bros. felt that Batman was completely dead after 1992, but then Christopher Nolan turned it around in 2005 with Batman Begins, and it came back as a massive blockbuster. Stranger things have happened.
     
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  15. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    You'll be on your own there, matey... it's not a movie series they're promoting with the above, it's a publishing thing only (comics, novels, etc)... never read a SW novel or standalone comic since the comic adaptation of Return of the Jedi bought and read countless times over my summer holidays in 1983 (I was 7 years old, c'mon!)... and I'm not remotely interested in them now... I'd rather read a proper book, thanks very much.

    And that's part of the problem from my perspective; before the Mouse House got their greasy mitts on the property, SW was genuinely special... it was an event when a new movie came out, even if that movie stank like a whorehouse at high noon (looking at you, Phantom Menace!)... now it's just another overexposed IP of increasingly diminishing creative returns, alas... but if people like what Disney have produced to date and in future, then go in peace, God bless, and hope you enjoy it... but for me (and speaking purely in my own subjective opinion), SW is and always will be the story of the rise, fall, and ultimate redemption of Anakin Skywalker... making a SW without that axis is like making new Godfather movies without Michael... yeah, you can do it, but meh... if making money is the sole reason for new SW movies (and it is, make no mistake about that!), then they can do it without my time and dime... it's not personal, only business... that being said, if someone comes along years from now and makes an absolute knockout new SW movie that's fresh, interesting, engaging, exciting, and most importantly original, I'll be the first one to give credit where it's due... but I'll not be holding my breath on that one... the 'Wars may be still a money-printing machine, but it's been a creative busted flush since the prequels.

    They say familiarity breeds contempt... and that was never more true when it comes to my current feelings regarding SW... and I never thought that was even possible up until a few years ago... every time I see that bloody iconic logo on the top of an online article now, I don't get a rush of excitement, rather I think to myself with an accompanying sigh, "sheesh, what now...? Enough already!"

    Now if they want to remaster and release the OT theatrical versions on Blu-ray sometime before I take my dirt nap, I'd be eternally grateful... but if not even Jar Jar Abrams could convince them to do that, there's little hope for it actually happening anytime soon, alas...

    Short of such a release, I'm done with the 'Wars... and that's that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  16. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    I'd go so far as to recommend all of Zahn's Star Wars novels, including his latest "canon" Thrawn trilogy.
     
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  17. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
    I would agree with you if, Disney was not in control of the IP. Any Star Wars story published under the Disney corp is considered "cannon" and can and may be used for live action production at any time. So yeah, the 200 year leap back has the greatest potential to be transferred to TV or film.
     
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  18. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Don't hold your breath.

    Even if the next one tanks,that's not going to stop them from making more. If so,SOLO's failure would have finished all future Star Wars projects after Rise of Skywalker,yet there are more plans.

    Even so...if you are indeed "done" with Star Wars,why do you seem to care either way about whether it keeps going or not? Could you,I don't know, just ignore it and move on with your life?
     
  19. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Well it was more like 1997 and Batman and Robin tanking , but otherwise,you are correct.
     
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  20. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    After 1997? Maybe.

    After 1992? Nope.

    "Batman Returns" wasn't as big a hit as they'd hoped, but they still put 1995's "Batman Forever" into production, and it did very well.

    It was 1997's problematic "Batman & Robin" that threatened to harpoon the franchise...
     
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  21. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    I'm sure he will. Nothing wrong with his speaking his mind and getting it out of his system before he gets there, though.
     
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  22. gabacabriel

    gabacabriel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    See the quote above? Anthrax gets it :)

    Speaking of a fan of 40+ years, frankly, I think I'm within my rights to "get it out of my system". The first Star Wars trilogy was for me - and I suspect a significant proportion of my generation - lightning in a bottle. A game changer.

    The Disney trilogy? An acquisition. An IP. Money in the bank.

    But that's only my opinion. Don't agree with my point of view? Then ignore my posts :)
     
  23. Michael Rose

    Michael Rose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Davie,Fl
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  24. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    With that in mind, expect an Indiana Jones and the Next Crusade...
     
  25. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Well I guess fair enough,but it feels like the people that are "getting it out of their system" have spent the last two years and in some cases since before TFA came out,"getting it out of their system",proclaiming Star Wars was ruined,dead,done... etc. You'd think at some point if one was actually done....they'd be done. How many times can one say " I don't like Star Wars anymore" before you realize everyone else is like. "Well...ok...good for you i guess."
     
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