Star Wars: Episode VIII (The Last Jedi) - SPOILERS POSSIBLE*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by MLutthans, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    This is one interpretation.

    “The prequel trilogy showed audiences some of Darth Sidious's other apprentices and trainees, besides Darth Vader. Each of the three movies has a particular focus on a specific antagonist: The Phantom Menace has Darth Maul, Attack of the Clones features Count Dooku, and Revenge of the Sith focuses on General Grievous.

    These three characters perfectly foreshadowed the man Anakin Skywalker would become as Darth Vader. Darth Maul is a manifestation of evil and hatred, the forces that drive Anakin to the dark side. Meanwhile, Count Dooku is known for his split from the Jedi Order, symbolizing Anakin’s fall from his friends and mentors. The final piece comes with Grievous, who hints at the final melding of man and machine that corrupts Anakin after his battle with Obi-Wan Kenobi.”
    Genius Foreshadowing In The Star Wars Prequels Most People Never Caught
  2. Song4U

    Song4U Forum Resident

    South Florida
    Do you think it's possible on the next episode that Luke is not really gone but lived and the "see ya around" is meant to mean that he is not really dead. So Luke will appear in the next episode since we won't have Princess Leia. The director could fill in missing parts of the final ending of TLJ that show somehow Luke survived. I wonder how the fans would feel about something of that nature?
  3. SJP

    SJP Forum Resident

    Maybe Luke will cross over to the other side and be returned by the Force Ghosts because there is still work for him to do.
    Keith V likes this.
  4. Matt Starr

    Matt Starr Musician who happens to play drums

    I don't see how you could make a case for Luke surviving since we explicitly see him disappear (and his clothes remain and fall to the rock below where he was floating) much the same way Yoda and Obi-Wan disappeared when they died (their clothes also remained but their bodies were gone). To me, that's the proper imagery for any Jedi Knight passing away. But I guess anything is possible for the next film.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  5. Quadboy

    Quadboy Forum Resident

    It would have only taken cutting that one scene of his death to have him continue.
    Has a force ghost ever been known to be able to grasp physical objects?
  6. Grasp, no. Sit down on, yes.

    That said, the Luke we saw grasping physical objects was not a "Force ghost" but a physical projection through the Force.
    bferr1, Song4U and Stratoblaster like this.
  7. Stratoblaster

    Stratoblaster Forum Resident

    Ontario, Canada
    I saw TLJ for the second time the other evening and I found it doesn't bear repeated viewings well after the first time, where everything is new, your getting surprised, etc.

    The bad, ponderous parts are even worse the second time around, particularly every scene with Rose and Finn in it, especially the Canto Bight story/events. Hux, Holdo, Phasma, and Poe are even more irritating, and the flaws in the story/characters/scenes are even more glaring upon a second viewing. It doesn't hold up well after the first time IMO; I was a bit surprised to feel this way as I expected to like it more the second time.

    These scenes irked me even more the second time and are the worst offenders overall (I've mentioned these before in this thread, but boy, did I find them so much more grating after a repeated viewing):

    -Finn flying a slow, piece of junk Rebel fighter into the Death Star Battering Ram Beam for a protracted amount of time without getting instantly vaporized. His ship did 'kind of melt' but he was flying with no face shield/helmet, and I think his cockpit was open/exposed. Poe said 'the cannon is fully charged' and there was already a red spot on the 'massive, super-duper hard to penetrate, Rebel base shield' as that was already getting melted, so the beam was 'online' and doing it's thing. I know you have to overlook some things, but, man, really????

    -a squad of AT-AT's facing off against the 13 slow, piece of junk Rebel fighters that are barely holding themselves together (Poe sticks his foot through the floorboards in his). Seriously, the AT-AT's/First Order cannot take care of those in about 3 milliseconds? They are slow moving, not shielded, coming in a formation straight in front of them, and they appeared with plenty of time to tracked/targeted. Sigh...:rolleyes:

    -Poe single handedly taking out all the turrets on the dreadnought. This scene played even weaker, and more unbelievable, the second time around.

    I know you have to suspend your disbelief in Star Wars movies, etc., but those scenes are really too much to overlook IMO.

    Also, why they didn't hyperspace the ships that were going to run out of gas into the First Order fleet instead of just letting them fall back and get destroyed? If there was a reason they couldn't it was never explained, but it does make you wonder what were they (Rebellion, script writers, whoever) not thinking here.

    It was, however, interesting to hear the reactions of the two 10-ish year old boys sitting behind me. They were clearly loving it throughout, making comments and exclaiming surprise on certain parts. It was funny when Snoke was skewered by the light saber and they both blurted "savage....that was just savage!!!", "yea, totally savage for sure...nice!!!" and they were pretty pumped over that part. I enjoyed watching it 'thru their eyes'...:righton:
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
    David Campbell, delmonaco and Solaris like this.
  8. Song4U

    Song4U Forum Resident

    South Florida
    The thing I don't like how Star Wars is going is that with TLJ we are being told there are no more Jedi and the Jedi Council is history and with the little boy at the end showing what looks like he has Jedi powers by the broom scene, it's kinda saying that anyone can have Jedi powers. Don't you think this is sorta watering down the history/story about how past characters became Jedi's? We have Rey who has no history of family in the force and now this boy at the end of the episode. I'm hoping they don't make this into anyone can have "the force if you really want it"....instead of it being special so to speak in the original trilogy. Also remember when Ep 1 came and there was so much talk about was Anakin the chosen one, like no one else in the whole galaxy had what Anakin was to become.

    I'm just fearing that Dizney will make this into a magical series going forward where anyone can use the force and not have any lineage behind it (Dizney-we don't have to tell you that part)....I also don't like that the Jedi council is no more....It's hard to accept all this...
  9. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    We saw lots of Jedi knights in the prequels... where did they all come from? It was never stated that the ability to use the Force had to run in the family. And the new films aren’t saying “anyone can have it if they really want it,” they’re showing us characters who already have it.
    But there hasn’t been a Jedi Council since Episode III... ?
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  10. Rhett

    Rhett Gettin' down and gettin' funky

    Cool City
    I saw this movie (by myself) over my Christmas vacation and I was a bit mixed on it.
    I saw it once and not in 3D.
    After watching it, I had to think on it for a bit and then I turned to some reviews online to see if people were talking about the same issues of the movie I was thinking about.
    And yes, they were.

    Here's some questions I walked away with at the end.

    How do we know for sure Luke is dead? He disappeared. Does that mean he's dead?

    The fight scene between Obi Wan and Vader - did Obi Wan force project himself in that fight scene? I always thought it was weird when Vader's light-saber hits Obi Wan - Obi Wan disappears. In other instances people don't disappear when they get hit by a light-saber.
    But then after seeing what Luke did at the end of this recent installment it got me thinking of the older duel and what actually went down there.
    sunspot42 and Song4U like this.
  11. Matt Starr

    Matt Starr Musician who happens to play drums

    Jedi Knights disappear when they die. Obi-Wan did not force project himself into the fight scene with Vader - he was actually there.
    GentleSenator likes this.
  12. Rhett

    Rhett Gettin' down and gettin' funky

    Cool City
    What's the difference between a Jedi and a Jedi Knight? One has gone to more meetings?
    Song4U likes this.
  13. Matt Starr

    Matt Starr Musician who happens to play drums

    I believe the Jedi Knights are the masters and all others would just be apprentices but I would defer to someone with more knowledge on that question.
  14. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    I'm pretty sure that Jedi and Jedi Knights are one in the same.
    Matt Starr and ianuaditis like this.
  15. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Evil Twin

    Jedi Knight is a rank within the Jedi Order.

    In the Phantom Menace, Obi-Wan Kenobi is an Apprentice (padawan.) They wear a little rat tail braid that's cut off as part of the ceremony to become a Jedi Knight. High ranking Jedi Knights become Jedi Masters, as Obi-Wan eventually became. It's kind of like martial arts, the title was bestowed for continued study and understanding of the Force, so an older Jedi Knight did not automatically become a Master just by being a Jedi for a long time.

    Obi-Wan's death in the first film was retconned in the prequels, as Yoda reveals he has communed with the spirit of Qui-Gonn, who teaches him and Obi-Wan (and I guess Obi-Wan taught Anakin) how to return as Force ghosts. It was an esoteric study that Qui-gonn had made while he was still alive.
    Song4U, Matt Starr and Encuentro like this.
  16. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen I don't suffer fools or trolls gladly...

    I can't remember: did Qui-Gon disappear when he died, presumably to become a "Force Ghost"?
  17. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Pittsburgh, PA
    My recollection is he died in the same way you would expect someone to die (in the movies) when struck in the gut with a metal sword. No disappearing.
  18. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen I don't suffer fools or trolls gladly...

    That's what I why didn't Qui-Gon turn into a Force Ghost? Forget to pay his Jedi Union dues, or what?
    sunspot42 and mmars982 like this.
  19. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Luray, Virginia
    As I understand it, he made a discovery within the Force AFTER he died that he could gather his consciousness and retain his identity within the Force. Thus, he apparently became the first Force Ghost, or at least in more recent times.

    Liam Neeson was supposed to film a cameo as a force ghost for the end of Revenge of the Sith but was unable to due to scheduling. So Yoda alludes to this via dialogue.
  20. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen I don't suffer fools or trolls gladly...

    "Filming Taken 17, Qui-Gon is.":p
  21. Song4U

    Song4U Forum Resident

    South Florida
    Something tells me Luke will be back in the last episode and not as a force ghost.
  22. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Luray, Virginia
    I don't doubt it, especially with Carrie gone and Princess Leia unavailable.

    The plan for IX was likely a force ghost cameo for Luke with Princess Leia and Kylo Ren being the focus of the Skywalker storyline. They pretty much had to scrap the original script for IX and start from scratch when Carrie Died and rather than also going back and reshooting and rewriting huge chunks of VIII,they made the financially responsible decision and let VIII stand as is and do whatever retconning you need to for IX.

    The nature of Luke's "death" was vague enough that it could be undone or elaborated on in IX.

    If I were writing the script I'd just say he discovered a way to join with the Force that didn't require him to die physically,and just make him sort of an ultra powerful Jedi god. Sort of like in Lord of the Rings and Gandalf. Gandalf the white " dies" and becomes Gandalf The Grey and is Uber powerful.

    Then I'd have Luke destroy a couple Star Destroyers with a gesture just to shut up the fanboys who were whining he didn't do it this go around and we can all move on with our lives. ;)
    sunspot42, Song4U and marblesmike like this.
  23. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    Genius is way too strong a word; George Lucas clearly put a lot of thought into ideas and themes for the prequel trilogy, before and during their making... it's just a pity he didn't hand those over to more proficient screenwriters to pull it all together on the page in a more focused manner prior to cameras rolling.

    There's quite a few OT details retconned in the prequels, and that's one of the main things that ultimately rule them out as canon in my eyes... had Lucas spent time mapping out the prequel trilogy arc in advance, including backstory details mentioned in the OT, it would have went a long way to making them an altogether better-told story... alongside the above-mentioned script improvements, shooting them on film, building more actual sets, tighter editing, and a much more judicious use of CGI would have helped immeasurably too!!!

    All that being said, I've found myself warming more to the prequels in light of the Disney films; they may have been seriously and ultimately fatally-flawed films, but there was a genuinely interesting story of substance there to be told - something that alas cannot be said about the current films - one with real emotional and thematic heft, however bungled the final result was... they were singular works made by a single creative vision, and for better or worse that came across in every frame... the current films are just mere retreads that smell of corporate mercenary intent; ATM machines at 24 frames a second!

    One of the things I appreciate about the prequels now more than I did pre-Disney is just how different George Lucas deliberately made each one; The Phantom Menace is basically a classical fairy tale, Attack of the Clones is a political conspiracy thriller, and Revenge of the Sith is an epic Greek/Shakespearian tragedy worthy of Homer or the Bard. In their aesthetic design, they're equally as different in comparison to the OT, and that's quite refreshing in hindsight... especially when compared to Disney's shameless aesthetic regurgitation in the new films.

    Do I now think the prequels' are an underrated, terribly misunderstood, and actually rather good set of films? No, they're still (largely) dull as dishwater with scripts that could have been written by a first-year student - although they do have flashes of brilliance throughout - more often than not look like cartoons, and they certainly lack the overall tactile tangibility of the world as shown in the OT... but they have a core substance to them and a reason for being that the arguably better-made Disney films never will, and that's given me a newfound soft spot for them I never thought would happen.

    Funny old world sometimes...
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    Neil Anderson, Song4U and ianuaditis like this.
  24. cyclistsb

    cyclistsb Forum Resident

    Maybe he comes back as the Joker, at least he played that role with more believability!
  25. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    I don’t think it was vague. He died just like Yoda does in Return of the Jedi.
    Matt Starr and ianuaditis like this.

Share This Page