STAR WARS: "Rise of Skywalker" **SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

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    UK
    30 years is a huge time in OUR world with out technology. It is absolutely nothing is a SW universe which has had space technology for 1000's of years. You can't compare the two.

    Given the technology of SW and how long they have had this stuff then the technology from the Phantom Menace should be almost identical to that in TROS. That is also why it is so dumb, and insulting, to suddenly have 1000 ships all with the power of the Death Star, considering how the Death Stars were really unique one-off things that too so much time and raw materials to make.
     
  2. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    I know this is only movie logic but it makes no sense to me to go to all the effort of turning a small, short range vessel into one capable of intergalatic travel. You have space cruisers for that.
    Although of course the X Wing can go to hyperspace... So you can start thinking about all this too much, I mean when Luke flew off to Dagobah how long did this take and whether he had to stop off anywhere on route, a comfort break or something to eat? Do they have Inter Galactic Service Stations?
     
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  3. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    United States
    The Emperor had more than enough of a force on the ground to stop the rebels, but did not account for the indigenous population. Empires often disregard the uniting of the masses. That was the point. Still, it would not have been enough had Vader not thrown the Emperor down the shaft, as he was controlling everything.
     
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  4. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Believe it or not, I have wondered about the fact that Luke went to Dagobah with just an X Wing Fighter for a few decades now. I always found it strange that he could go to a distant planet in that small fighter. I also always wondered about the parallel timelines between Luke's Jedi training and the others fleeing to Bespin. I thought that one would need months, while the other felt like days (or a week at best).
     
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  5. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    Apparently, according to the Star Wars Atlas (which is EU stuff, and not thought of by the Lucas or Kirshner to be sure), Luke had a short trip to Dagobah. So how long did he train with Yoda? That can be calculated by how long it took the Falcon to get to Bespin with a broken hyperdrive. The EU later added a slow backup hyperdrive (which is very slow) to the Falcon, since traveling at sublight speed would be an incredible amount of time. So we do not know. It could have been a week or two, or I have seen high estimates of up to 6 months that Luke trained with Yoda.
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Slave to the rhythm

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Good point about the broken hyperdrive. But didn't Han suggest Bespin because it was near? Of course we don't know how long it took them to get there, but nothing suggested that they spent weeks on that journey. On the other hand, training a Jedi (even if the training remained incomplete) should take more than two or three weeks. I would expect a few months at least.

    But I'm probably just overthinking this.
     
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  7. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    There is also a question of how much food and water are on the Falcon. Would it be enough for the long 6 month figure? I always assumed it was like a month or two that Luke was with Yoda. Basic training for a Jedi if you will.
     
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  8. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    A lot of the conversations in this thread remind me of the Star Wars discussion in Clerks about whether or not genocide was committed by destroying the Death Star.

    I think at some point we need to accept these are movies and concepts change for the sake of storytelling.

    Take Luke's x-wing flying at hyperspeed. To me they simply needed a way for Luke to travel in a small ship.
     
  9. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    When have I said Prequels bad? I've only said in the past that I was initially disappointed with TPM and AOTC and Revenge of the Sith is my third favorite Star Wars movie. Over the years I've come to appreciate and even like large parts of TPM and AOTC and I still love Revenge if the Sith and rank it above all the current era Star Wars.

    Even when I was disappointed with the Prequels,the over the top reactions to them by some fans (I.E. "George Lucas ruined my childhood!") Annoyed the hell out of me just as the over the top screaming by the Fandom Menace over the sequels, particularly the two years and running tempter tantrum over TLJ annoy me now. Sometimes a disappointing movie is just...a disappointing movie. It's not the fate of the world. It's not some personal political agenda to insult you. It's just a movie and the negative ranting about it gets on my nerves. That was the case with the PT and is the case now.

    That being said,I can poke harmless fun at the Prequels or any era of Star Wars. Doesn't mean I hate it. Quite the contrary. Even the goofy stuff is endearing...and 8 year old Anakin Skywalker's dialogue and acting were goofy as heck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  10. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    Saw it last night finally. I enjoyed it for the most part. A good ending for the story begun by the middle trilogy, and I was impressed that Harrison Ford made another cameo here. I didn't think Kylo Ren could have been redeemed after all the stuff he did, but I guess I should have seen that coming.

    Can't decide if I like Rey as a character or not, and I somewhat dislike how they basically grafted the Luke Skywalker story arc onto her. It just seems kinda lazy. Good stuff elsewhere though, and everybody gets a little "bit" in the movie to do something. A little video gamey though, and it's just the characters running from one planet to another chasing some plot MacGuffin. This film does nail the emotional moments. I would give this installment a 7/10--The Force Awakens being the best of this trilogy, The Last Jedi probably the worst because it was so random, bloated and digressive. Disney needs to give Star Wars movies a rest for awhile, as the toxicity of the fandom has become overwhelming. Make people clamor for another trilogy again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  11. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    This is from Wiki:

    "Described as lacking a hyperdrive or shield generators, the fragile TIE fighters are deployed in large numbers from bases or larger ships; a Star Destroyer carries a wing of 72 various TIE craft. Expanded Universe material holds that TIE fighter pilots, who undergo intense physical and psychological testing, are trained to be intensely loyal to Emperor Palpatine and the Empire, willing to sacrifice themselves and their wingmates to accomplish their mission. TIE pilots were seen as expendable assets, as it was far cheaper to manufacture a great deal of standardized spacecraft in overwhelming numbers than it was to fully equip the craft. A TIE fighter consists of the absolute minimum necessary to function as a spacecraft, being essentially nothing more than a cockpit with an engine and weapons"

    Essentially mass-produced cheap spacecraft that deployed from a ship, they had no hyperdrive as there was no need at all and anyone it would defeat the object of being cheap to produce. They were expendable, not designed to fly on their own like the Rebel ships, hence this famous exchange:

    [A TIE fighter flies over the ****pit]
    Ben Kenobi: It's an Imperial fighter.
    Luke Skywalker: It followed us!
    Ben Kenobi: No, it's a short-range fighter.
    Han Solo: There aren't any bases around here. Where did it come from?
    Luke Skywalker: It sure is leaving in a big hurry. If they identify us, we're in big trouble.
    Han Solo: Not if I can help it. Chewie, jam its transmissions.
    Ben Kenobi: It'd be as well to let it go. It's too far out of range.
    Han Solo: Not for long.
    Ben Kenobi: A fighter that size couldn't get this deep into space on its own.
    Luke Skywalker: He must have gotten lost, been part of a convoy or something.

    The Rebel fighters were not considered expendable and so had far better ships, ships with shields and hyperdrives. So Luke could travel long distances in his X -Wing.

    Kylo obviously has a specially modified ship with a hyperdrive, he is the Supreme Leader after all. I don't think Vader's TIE in A New Hope had a hyperdrive though, as in the book Lost Stars he has to be rescued from the area after the Death Star explodes as his ship obviously can't travel far. A shuttle goes and picks him up.
     
  12. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Saw it last night. Really liked it. Wasn't surprised by most of the plot turns, but it had enough action and pathos to keep me enthused with an occasional tear. It was a bit long, but I don't know what I would have trimmed, other than the last 5 minutes and the unnecessary Ewoks scene. I'd like to see them develop the masked woman who (of course) reappears at the end. I'd go 8/10
     
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  13. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Of course, it's also possible that in the year since VIII Kylo Ren took over as supreme leader he decided to add hyperdrives and such to his TIE Fighters since he decided he was going to run things differently than Snoke/Palpatine,and more effectively track the resistance and Rey. There were little bits that gave the impression people like Hux and Pryde didn't care for how Ren was running things,and wasting resources in augmented Fighters in his quest to find "the scavenger". Heck Hux betrayed Kylo after all,so it's a distinct possibility.

    Of course it would have been nice if they addressed it in some way within the movie,but alas they didn't. Either due to lack of time or (probably) Abrams didn't think the hyperdrive thing was a big deal. For the general audience,he's right. For Star Wars geeks though...
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  14. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

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    Exactly. The Empire can crank out TIE's and pilots in unlimited numbers and they were expendable. They were very fast with good armament. They would overwhelm the kind of threats found around the galaxy with numbers.
     
  15. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

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    Luray, Virginia
    I also had to post this Robot Chicken skit since you mentioned Vader's whereabouts after the destruction of the death Star....


     
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  16. TrekkiELO

    TrekkiELO Forum Resident

    Fair enough, I pretty much agree with what you've said here, but some of your replies from yesterday came off that way, sorry!

    :cool:
     
  17. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Yeah. I was probably in a somewhat surly mood yesterday. Probably had something to do with someone who will remain nameless calling me an "apologist" because I'm not a nitpicking hater with an agenda... But if I'm an "apologist" so be it. Its better and more healthy than being salty and filled with hate over a two year old movie. Id rather still be able to enjoy Star Wars than try to nitpick every little thing to convince myself to stay angry about things. Which obviously is not everyone here raising plot questions about TROS..but definitely a few who I won't name.
     
  18. Ron Stone

    Ron Stone Offending Member

    Location:
    Deep Maryland
    Sci-fi tropes you just have to accept:

    Space travelers maintain consistent, synchronized chronologies, despite the fact that they are all leaping in and out of faster-than-light warp speeds.

    Those same travelers maintain livetime communication with each other and a home base, despite the intergalactic distances involved.

    Everyone breathes the same atmosphere, eats the same food and drinks the same fluids, is resistant to the same microbiologies, and speaks English.

    Laser-guided weapons, and even lasers themselves, somehow miss slower than light speed targets.

    Everything old -- be it a starship, a computer, or a motorized roof -- can be re-started with a good kick or two to its "core," whether it's been under a rock, in a swamp, or left on a frozen moon for generations.

    Malignant civilizations capable of building city-sized starships for obliterating entire planets must still, for some reason, engage in hand-to-hand combat on the surface of a planet. Similarly, tasks you would think had been outsourced to drones and robots still need to be performed by humans, such as repairing the antenna outside the spaceship, exploring a cave and combat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  19. Yeah, once you get into "how much food do they have" and "what about the bathroom" you've reached the depths of examining how the real world fits into these fantasy stories. Why it's better to not go down that route at all.
     
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  20. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Vancouver
    But if their universe is like our universe, you couldn't get anywhere without being able to travel faster than the speed of light, no matter how "close" it was. It would still take us three or four years to get to the nearest solar system even if we could travel at the speed of light.
    The ability to destroy a planet with a giant laser appears to be a new technological development in "Star Wars" -- why haven't they been able to do that before in a thousand years of space travel? As far as Han Solo knows, a fleet of star destroyers couldn’t destroy a planet and the Death Star is “too big to be a space station.” So clearly it’s still possible to innovate in the Star Wars universe.
     
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  21. Jim B.

    Jim B. Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    If you read the novel Catalyst you will see the Death Star took years to be made and was really reliant on one scientist who had the ability to harness the power of Kyber crystals.

    That's believable, that an ultimate weapon could be designed and built. I'm not suggesting overwise. But the general technology that people are using, by that point in the empire, should be fairly static. You can compare it to 21st century earth.

    However Disney does require you sales, and it's clear there are things in these films which are only there to sell a toy.
     
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  22. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Well...that's almost always been true of Star Wars , hasn't it? How else do you explain Boba Fett,Ewoks, every single insignificant back ground character in the OT getting their own figures and all the stuff in the Prequels that was obvious toy bait?


    I mean...it's not like Lucas was running a charity for 35 years and only when Disney bought it everything in regards to merchandising changed. The only real change is Disney has a larger reach when it comes to merchandising compared to old Lucasfilm on its own.

    As much as we love the older films... everything after The 1977 film have more or less been two and a half hour toy commercials. Gary Kurtz apparently parted ways with George before Return of the Jedi in part because he felt George was putting merchandising and toy concerns over a satisfying narrative. Harrison Ford had said the primary reason George rejected his and Laurence Kasdan's suggestion that Han should die in ROTJ was because there was no future in dead Han Solo action figures.

    Heck,Mel Brooks did a whole thing in Spaceballs about the "real" power beyond the Force.



    It's basically been par for the course. Heck,you could make the argument that Disney dropped the ball on the toy side of things with the current films. Rogue One featured toys of the lead characters that all died ,and TLJ's timeline in relation to TFA left few options to create new variations of the characters and ships from TFA. Neither of which probably wouldn't have happened if George was still in charge. The prequel era, particularly The Phantom Menace was merchandised to the point of obnoxiousness.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  23. greg_t

    greg_t Forum Resident

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    St. Louis, MO
    and Han and Luke didn't even get a change of clothes all of those months! At least Leia got a new gown in bespin.
     
  24. JAuz

    JAuz Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Yeah, the big one is no toys for the Baby Yoda character in The Mandalorian. Even I could have predicted that would be a popular character.
     
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  25. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    That is mindboggling that there was NOTHING Mandalorian related for the Christmas season.
    Old uncle George would have had figures of every character and a toy of every vehicle ready to sell before the first episode aired on Disney +.

    It is kind of funny that for all the crap Disney gets for "milking" Star Wars ,new Lucasfilm seems to not prioritize toys and licensing to the degree George did, especially circa late 90s to mid 2000's. I guess from a certain point of view that can be seen as either good or bad.
     

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