STAR WARS: "Rise of Skywalker" **SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Dec 20, 2019.

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  1. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    My issue is that this trilogy seems not very thought out, and having different directors disregarding each other's work means a lot of unanswered questions and forced plots

    - Palpatine showing up out of nowhere, retconning and lessening the impact of the end of ROTJ with no real explanation in this movie to justify it beyond "we killed Snoke and need a way to build up hype in this movie so why not?"
    - In the first movie Maz brushing aside how she got Anakin's old lightsaber and it never being elaborated on
    - Random force things being introduced at the last minute like the dyad, for plot convenience
    - Rose for no reason getting thrown aside for a new character in the very last movie after a lackluster trite introduction in TLJ to begin with


    JJ lives and dies behind his love mystery boxes unfortunately

    I can list tons more but those are my main ones. This is like Game of Thrones Season 8 all over again unfortunately. It is truly a shame that it seemingly is getting really hard for these franchises to just stick the landing.
     
  2. agentalbert

    agentalbert Senior Member

    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    I'm not going to complain about the commercialization, but I still think that's a funny poster referencing "They Live".
     
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  3. Matthew

    Matthew Senior Member

    I don't think it lessens a thing about the end of Return Of The Jedi. Let's be honest, the modern ingredient that lessens the end of Return Of The Jedi is:

    "NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" followed by force-ghost Hayden Christensen.

    ;)
     
  4. Flippikat

    Flippikat Forum Resident

    The use of leftover Carrie Fisher footage - which I understand was outtakes from The Force Awakens - was well done. Her scenes didn't appear jarring, and they managed to incorporate her into the story well, given that they decided early on to only work with what they already had.

    I hope we get some insight on how they re-tooled those performances to fit The Rise of Skywalker so well.. Blu-Ray bonus feature, maybe?

    Another thing that struck me was the bit of outreach to The Last Jedi haters - and maybe even to Mark Hamill, come to think of it.. given how he wasn't happy with TLJ's portrayal of Luke. Luke admitting that "I made a mistake" was a pretty deft move.
     
  5. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    I just saw the film this evening and by the end felt that I'm absolutely done with the Star Wars franchise. The film was just too, too much, all the time. IS it against cinematic law now to have some space, some breathing room between the bravura action scenes?, must it be a non-stop video game? Particularly annoying is long slide down the rabbit hole of action franchises ignoring the laws of physics, this latest extravaganza reaches new heights of ridiculousness in that regard, I guess event he mere mortals don't get nauseous or have any balance problems high up in the sky as they stand on severely angled spaceships (following their big jumps to safety), OY!
     
  6. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    it's a movie, it's not real. It's a fairy tale. It's not science fiction either so it does not adhere to the laws of physics as it's not concerned with it. It's quite simply a fairy tale, just meant to be fun and not over analyzed.
     
  7. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    Yes, and they used to make such films far better, and so I shall lament the current state of affairs!
     
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  8. greg_t

    greg_t Senior Member

    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Examples? Star wars has always been the same since 1977. It didn't adhere to laws of science back then either, I'm not sure why we suddenly expect it should now?
     
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  9. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    It's just over the top now IMHO. When the laws of gravity don't apply to the normal non-superpowered characters it kills it for me. I'll exit this discussion now, no need to banter further.
     
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  10. marblesmike

    marblesmike Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I think they made the point that the gravity was heavy on that planet or something with the atmosphere which hindered the Star Destroyers. Since they were hovering in the atmosphere I kinda took it to mean there was gravity.

    I saw it again today, this time in RPX 3D, which was absolutely awesome. It reaffirmed that I really enjoyed the movie. It surely is not perfect by any means (it is a little long; some of the editing is a bit sloppy in places, like they've made last minute cuts; the addition of Palpatine was a bit forced but still overall pretty cool) but it's biggest flaw to me still is that it seems like there were too many hands in the cookie jar.

    I think IX was the best of the sequel trilogy, but i wait to see how it ranks within the whole series after I've lived with it a while.
     
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  11. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    Good luck. I’m sure that was real footage. They don’t come close to that quality with CgI fakes ..l ever.

    In fact if I had a complaint with the film it was all the phony CGI which now looks more phony than ever in 4K. These days it better to watch some movies on the small screen so you don’t see how cheaply they’re made or how fake their cgi looks. The way we laugh at Robert Godzilla suits now people are going to be laughing at the CGI of the early 21st-century
     
  12. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Just to name-drop yet again, a few times Lucas told me, "hey, I just wanted this to be a fantasy for kids, not anything more sophisticated than that." So that was his original intent. I think he kind of raised the stakes with the prequels, but I think the results were mixed at best.

    Well, they do have some rules that are pretty iron-clad: they have to have oxygen to breathe in their spaceships, there are limitations as to how fast they can go, they have to refuel every so often, there's a common language, the planets they visit seem to have the same gravity, people (and creatures) die, characters get physically hurt and suffer damage (loss of limbs and so on), characters make mistakes and misjudgments. We can buy into some tweaks with the laws of physics, like they can instantaneously jump to light speed, and this was the first film where they actually did it multiple times in a row in an effort to get away from somebody. I think one of the earlier Star Wars films had a line that said, "we can't jump to light speed because we're too close to that planet or that other ship," but clearly that rule got suspended. Maybe it was more a "recommendation" than an iron-clad rule. They did show that the Millennium Falcon was busted pretty badly and had to be repaired after that trip, so there was a cause and effect there.

    They are very selective in terms of what they enforce and what they don't, and one assumes there's somebody in charge at Lucasfilm who looks over the script and says, "wait a minute... and such-and-such a film, we said that this won't work because of XYZ," so they keep track of this stuff.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  13. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Anybody catch the “Dune” sand worm in one light speed jump?
     
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  14. coffeetime

    coffeetime Senior Member

    Location:
    Lancs, UK
    It was more a case of the revelation of the footage of force ghost Leia on Tatooine at the end of TRoS originating from 1983. I was certain this was a modern CG confection like Rogue One Leia. However it was done, the precision tooled button pressing of the Lars homestead set, the Luke & Leia force ghost appearance, Williams scoring and Daisy Ridley absolutely sold the scene for me. Cue waterworks and a highly satisfying ending for me.

    Absolutely agreed. After knowing that Harrison wanted Han to die in ROTJ and getting his wish in TFA, I honestly thought he was done with the franchise. Yes, the scene would have worked well with Leia. One last Han scene with what for me is his signature line in the entire saga was as delightful as it was unexpected. If Harrison agreed to appear in the scene in Carrie’s stead, well, that just makes the scene even better!
     
  15. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Yeah,given that he's winding down his career and already said goodbye to Han with TFA,and also given his injury on the set there resulted in a law suit,I'm surprised he came back.
     
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  16. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    And here's a thoughtful essay from the Hollywood Reporter on how Rise of Skywalker fits in the legacy of Star Wars, and whether it works or not (in the writer's opinion):

    'Rise of Skywalker' and the Complicated Legacy of 'Star Wars'

    I think his opinion comes close to mine: that the film has some flaws, there's quite a few unanswered questions in many of the past films, but the essential guts of the film work very well.
     
  17. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Badly worded on my part, perhaps. I meant the final part of the movie, from the Kylo-Rey confrontation to the last uberbattle - I didn't get into that. I had thoroughly enjoyed it up till then.
     
  18. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    I wish I had gone to see this one in Dolby. The dark action heavy scenes were a bit hard to see at my local megaplex which tends to be a bit dim. I may return to see it this in a premium format just to make sure I get the most out of the film before passing final judgement.

    Despite my misgivings I have to say the imagery of the final scenes lingers in my head, and I’d like to see that as clearly as possible in exhibition. I think JJ’s art direction for his two films strikes an odd balance between 00s sci-fi and fantasy not seen in the saga previously. While fantasy elements have always been in the story he really loves the Arthurian aesthetic which somehow works in both films. The whole set design of Exegol is a highlight IMO, and a bold choice to go so dark and fantastical.
     
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  19. Quadboy

    Quadboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leeds,England
    The biggest tear jerker of the last 3 films would have been if someone (chewie?) had had to sacrifice the Falcon to destroy that fleet navigation system.
     
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  20. bru87tr

    bru87tr 80’s rule

    Location:
    MA
    Go back and watch the prequels. Then you will realize how far we have come.

    Watching those in UHD is like watching a cartoon.
     
  21. Grunge Master

    Grunge Master 8 Bit Enthusiast

    Location:
    Michigan
    While watching ROTJ today, I was thinking about how that wayfinder was behind the wall on the Death Star. So did The Emperor put it there way back when just in case he got killed? Like he had already decided 'if I bite it, whatever is left of me is going to be sent to this planet. I'll stick this thing behind this wall and another one on Mustafar so people can come find me'?
     
  22. Grunge Master

    Grunge Master 8 Bit Enthusiast

    Location:
    Michigan
    Also (I guess I haven't put very much thought into it, as it seems the less that you think about these things the better off this trilogy seems to be), Rey and Luke and Leia and cousins, right? Palpatine created Anakin, so Luke and Leia are Palpatine's grandkids. Palpatine also had a grandkid (Rey) through another child, so that makes them all a big family.
     
  23. Yayastone

    Yayastone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Monterey, CA.
    Chewie finally getting his medal hit me hard unexpectedly
     
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  24. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US

    See this is the stuff that Star wars fans have moaned over for 40 year and the other 95% of the audience goes: “What was that medal?” (Like me). This is why JJ had a hard time trying to please everybody and not have a completely disjointed wreck.

    On another note, Those Film reviewers who said this is the worst Star Wars movie ever and talked at length about princess Leia’s awkward screen appearance that seems so fake and forced - I barely would have noticed since banal and meaningless banter about “ try and do” is pretty much the course for theses films. As a Star Wars fan I’m glad the series ended because I did get a little bored about 3/4 with the formula, which is exactly what it is at this point: A formula. About the least exciting thing in the world to me now is Star fighter attack, sorry to say.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
  25. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Luray, Virginia
    Actually according to the old EU the Force that created Anakin apparently in response to Darth Plageous and Darth Sideous (Palpatine) 's screwing around with the Dark Side. It's not clear if that is still Canon post Disney. So, I guess as a manner of consequence if you squint a bit,yes Palpatine is sorta sharing credit with Plageous as the Father.

    Also,since C3PO was built by Anakin that would technically make he and the Skywalker twins siblings too.

    Man,this all sounds like an episode of the Maury Povich show!


    Another thought I had this morning,I think the whole Rey origin thing would have worked better if we found out she wasn't literally Palpatine's blood granddaughter. Instead she could have been like Anakin was,a creation of the Force to combat the dark side/Palpatine. Maybe even caused by Anakin within the Force as to more directly connect her to the prophesy from the prequels so that Anakin still is the one responsible for restoring balance through Rey and connecting her indirectly to the Skywalker family and make her the spiritual sibling to Luke and Leia...but born to a Palpatine, essentially making Rey the literal embodiment of balance. A child of the Force,of Skywalker and Palpatine who eventually takes the Skywalker name.

    The twist could have been that she was born to Palpatine's daughter as a virgin birth sort of thing, which Palpatine attempted to use the whole "I am your grandfather" thing to trick her into becoming his new host body as in the movie. The rest of the movie could have unfolded the same,except when we get to the Jedi voices scene,Anakin tells Rey she was not born of Palpatine, but of the Force to finish what he started. Still having all the other voices chiming in.

    It literally could have been one line of dialogue and wouldn't have drastically changed the movie at all aside from lessening the implications that this trilogy undid the first six films. I disagree that it does, but if you are hung up on the chosen one stuff from the prequels as being strict Canon,then yes, Perhaps it does undermine the previous films. A similar small change like that could have fixed it for most that are reasonable yet have problems with Palpatine being alive and Anakin not being the one to destroy him for all time.

    That all being said,I still like the movie and I'm seeing it a second time today.
     
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