Steely Dan- Aja coming on vinyl remastered by Kevin Gray

Too bad that we don't know which is Roger's version.

 

The vocals tend to reside in the midrange, so any tweak there will tend to bring them out. But when adding in the 3-4K area I tend to proceed with caution. A lot of the harshness in vocals and drums is in this area (including sibilance). If the midrange is recessed I tend to add at 6K as a rule of thumb.

 

The difference between Steve's and Roger's mastering is quite subtle - so I think this is causing part of the confusion.

 

But in any case, Steve's and Roger's CD would not stay perfectly in synch! That's why the unremastered UK, German, Japanese and US CDs necessarily originate from the same mastering.

(Except the US JVC disc which is totally different, much brighter and does not sound like a flat transfer at all).

 

But siblilance can be prominent in the 6k to 8k area as well. I guess the main thing is to balance the perceived improvement in vocal presence (or whatever it is that you're trying to acheive) against any unwanted side effects.

 

Yes, I'm aware of the synch issue (an excellent point, BTW). However, it does bother me a bit there seem to be some Aja CDs that stay in synch but seem to sound a little different from the others. You only have to look at the EAC peak values...

 

In theory yes, but the harshness in sibilance is often in the 3-4K range more than anything else. I think adding at 6K has less potential to be caustic. But you're right. You have to proceed with caution regardless of what you do.

 

I'm shocked sometimes that 1dB can be too much. I also think that one of the best things that you've taught me is to dial it down by half once you get it to sound the way you want. Often with harsh midrange I experiment by taking out as much as 3 or 4 dB's and then cut it half. It usually works quite well.

 

Probably the most valuable lesson I've learned here is just how much you can achieve with slight EQ changes. The rule of thumb I'm developing is that if you think you need to add more than 2dB to get what you're after then you're probably adding EQ in the wrong place anyway. As you say, knocking off a dB at certain judicious points is often much more effective.

I'd have to agree that adding as much as 6dB is just bad news - you're almost always going to wind up with an unnatural emphasis in that range you're tweaking, and it will probably play havoc with the soundstage. The idea of halving what you think sounds good (if you're adding EQ) is certainly something I wouldn't have thought of!

Thanks for the tip about All Right Now!

 

That boost at 3.4K is so common in 60's mixes (mono specially). What were engineers going for back then?

 

Interesting thread!

After reading this, I am now even more convinced that the early AJA CD I have had for some time is yours Steve - particularly after finding another early CD version that I think must be the Nichols version, and comparing the two.

The first one has to be yours - the midrange "hole" is partly filled in and it just sound more right - more defined bass, less harsh on the high end. The other while nice has that big midrange hole, less "present" bass and is a tad bright on top. Nichols' is much better than the remasters, but I like what you did with AJA the most! (PS so did my wife - and she could care less about audiophile discussions, but she said immediately as I compared the two that yours "sounded a lot better").

Hearing these two I don't really get why we need all the threads comparing digital identities etc...the differences are really quite readily audible, particularly when you know what to listen for from discussions like this.

 

Could you post the Exact Aduio Copy peak levels of both CDs, or even better, some sound samples from both CDs?

 

I believe my mid 80s budget MCA copy of this lp was cut by Kevin Gray by the way. Unless KG in the deadwax stands for Kevin Garnett. Since then I have acquired a couple of ABC label gatefold copies. Haven't listened to the budget copy in a while but it sounds nice.

 

if your early/mid-'80s MCA reissue has 'KPG/MCA' in the dead wax, then it's Kevin's. it's not from the master tapes, though. i asked him during my visit to RTI--most of the early '80s Steely Dan records he mastered were from tape dubs. i'm really looking forward to the Cisco reissue.

 

Well, I remember you saying how Dave Hassinger would filter above 6k, so it all fits...

 

Hey Steve, when you are making these EQ decisions, at what dB level are you listening?

 

I'm not DrJ, but when I get a chance I will post two samples (30 seconds at most) from "Black Cow", one from a known SH mastering, and one from what I believe to be the Nichols mastering. To my ears there is an obvious difference, although it might seem to be very subtle to some people, especially in the midrange.

To make it more interesting I won't label which sample is which. I'll get the EAC levels too, but I won't post them till later so that you can't identify the versions from the EAC levels.

 

If I ever do, you'd be a chapter all by yourself, buddy!

I'm actually curious if you always master at exactly the same listening levels AND how you protect your hearing given your love of music.

 

15db, and STILL midrangey!! Holy crap. I never thought this type of eq existed out there. Great story Steve.