Hi, So i got a bit more inf0 from the seller on this; "manufactured in USA. Code DIDX-000055 printed on inner ring and printed again near the credits. The code MCAD-37214 is also printed near the credits". From the threads i've read (how many different ones are there?), it looks like Mastering #3. The sound is meant to be excellent and is a nichols mastering (not the elusive SH mastering). Can anyone confirm thanks
Yes that seems like Master 3, an '85 Nichols, which is really good IMO so I would proceed. I suppose you have to know you are always taking a chance that after running the EAC it is not, but I think for Aja the MCAD-37214 without JVC or CINRAM on it is good to go. KeithH is saying look for a made in Japan but I don't know if he is saying it sounds better or not. Sometimes where they are pressed can reveal small differences but you may need bat ears and a good system sometimes to tell; I have the US and have no reservations recommending it.
Also - if you have a neighborhood record store that sells used CDs, keep your eyes open. The 85 is not exactly rare - especially in the US. And you never know what will show up. I found a mastering 3 Aja - very happy with it - but I kept checking the used bins anyway. Imagine my surprise when a mastering 7 showed up for around $4.00 US. Cheers, Paul
^^ Very cool that seems like quite a find especially for here in the US. I don't know if I have ever read any real direct comparison of a 3 and a 7. Is the 7 a showstopper? My guess is you notice SH's eq for the mids right.
Thanks for the help, i'll pick up the nichols mastering #3. Incidentally, what is the issue with the later versions (citizen dan / 2008), is it sound quality or compression, did i read some of the newer versions had glitchs?
Actually - some of the glitches in the 1985 version of Pretzel Logic are legendary. The 99 remasters are not "flat transferred" like the 85s. They are noticeably louder and have a treble boost. Since the 99's were transferred by Roger Nichols under supervision by the artists, my personal theory is that they were trying to make them sound more like the digital sonics of Two Against Nature. See my quotes of Roger's comments about the 85's and 99's here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...acd-on-7-30-2014.366378/page-43#post-11198265 Citizen Dan generally falls midway between the 85s and 99s - in volume and EQ. Also - it was prepared by Glenn Meadows instead of Roger Nichols. (Although - according to some of Roger's archived posts on his website - Roger did know Glenn, and worked with him from time to time.) I have questions about the source of the tapes for these - in some cases they do sound worn compared to the 85s, though this may have been due to natural aging and/or misplacement of the master tapes when Citizen was compiled in 1993. Cheers, Paul
It's... subtle. They're very close. If pressed, I'd say that mastering 3 sounds a touch more strident - a very small touch. You have to be A/B-ing it song by song in headphones to hear it. Mastering 7 is extremely smooth - in a great way. Cheers, Paul
just ordered the uk MCLD 19145 cd, hopefully this will be what i receive... Looking forward to hearing this SH version and comparing it to the DIDX 000055!
^^ Cool van1, let us know how that turns out. Here is what I wrote on your ’99 and Citizen Dan master question. Paul P. summarized it quite well. It is worth saying that the degree of differences between these various SD remasters is less than many other remaster horror stories. Sometimes it seems the shorthand around here can be making a decision about what is better, and so the other thing can come across as bad whether it is in fact bad or simply because it is just not better. This is not wrong mind you, but the shorthand can overlook these degrees sometimes in my experience; let’s face it, no matter the degree, better is better and so that is where the focus of the debate goes. In this case I lived with the ’99s for quite a while [not Aja, I had the MFSL] and compression was not a problem relative to other loudness war remasters. But when you spend time with the ‘99 and the ‘85 the differences show up pretty clearly for me; so the ’99 is not a bad mastering job just not as good a one—there are other SD threads, unlike this one where we are talking about the ’85 pretty exclusively, where you will find plenty who like the ’99 better. For me Nichols seemed to struggle with deteriorating analog tapes by ’99. Man those tapes had a hard life apparently; road hard and put away wet I guess. Some combination of the label, SD, or Nichols decided to use the analog tapes in ‘99 and not the digital copy Nichols made in ’81 when he saw the tapes were going bad. The glitches you cite are on the tape. They show up on the new shm-sacds of CTE and Pretzel, so it is not a ’99 mastering problem, thems the tapes. Maybe the compression or eq was to downplay some of the tape troubles. Plus for the ’99 I agree with Paul P. and think they may have wanted to give the albums more punch, big em up a little. They did pretty well with that and I think that is why some like them; but the compression and top-end eq pinch off all lot of the lovely tonality that was on the ’85 IMO; the ’99 is darker or muddled in the lower mids while the added treble kind of viels or puts a buzzy sheen on the upper mids, this stamps out some tonality in exchange for oomph and sizzle. The ’85s for the most part are all around more open or airier [some may say thin on this point], better balanced, with purer musical tones coming through; the timbral qualities linger longer in the '85s where as with the ’99 they get stamped out pretty fast. I did not have Citizen Dan but had some of the concurrent CDs using the same mastering, they were more like the ’99 than the ’85.
So my MCLD 19145 uk copy of Aja arrived, and it has the same artwork / packaging as the 19145 nimbus cd but instead of being a nimbus it has the matrix code "MCLD 19145 01 &" also says 'Made in the uk by Universal' on the reverse side of the disc. it also has the 1 second countdown between songs. Any ideas where this fits in to the 7 masters? thanks
Searching that matrix no. leads to posts here saying it is a digital clone of the one Steve thought was his mastering
Just saw steely dan mcld 19145 Aja at local cd store for $6. Is it a Hoffman master? Should I grab it?
Well - if it looks anything like this: I'd say go for it. From what we can tell, this is a Hoffman master. NOTE: It's hard to tell in the photo - but this is Mastered by Nimbus. You can try clicking on the image to enlarge it, if that helps. Also - the matrix numbers of this disc are in this post of mine: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...t-masterings-aja.158372/page-11#post-10412970 Cheers, Paul
Oh! I also have that one you just got, van1 (MCLD 19145 01 & "Made In UK By Universal") it looks like a newer pressing than the other 3 MCA CD's of Aja I have.. it sounds really lovely.. Fwiw, I also have MCAD-37214 in two forms, - one a UK MCA, with MCA, Brewer Street, London on rear inlay, UPC = 5 011781 721423 Made in USA on disc face with MFD BY JVC, a load of "Tetris" blocks and MCAD-37214 22T in the hub & '21' etched after the 22T.. - and the other is MCAD-37214 DIDX 55 No Barcode, Mfd in Japan for USA on disc screen printing with MCAD 37214 TCE11 etched into the hub, legible from playing side up.. which both sound lovely too.. ..and a German BMG Ariola, UPC = 5 011781 174526 and which has two catalogue identifiers : MCD 01745 and DMCL 1745 on both disc face and rear inlay, plus D:QM and F:BM 720 printed on rear inlay in two little boxes to top right, with MCD01745 50169033 01 + in the outer part of the hub with MADE IN GERMANY opposite it in the inner hub.. and that sounds equally lovely also..! I really don't know what I have with those 4 MCA's but they all sound very similar indeed and all super nice! Love 'em equally! Then I've the MFSL CD (Japanese pressing) which needs more of a crank of the whick.. and strikes me as having a different quality to cymbal crashes and such and possibly a bass or maybe lower-mid boost compared to the other 4 I've just mentioned.. but is still very nice.. .. and then I've the Platinum SHM (which I believe uses the same 2010 DSD mastering as the SHM-SACD?) also needs a good crank, at lower levels it seems a bit less engaging than the MCA's.. it doesn't need quite as much of a volume boost as the MFSL CD on my setup.. strikes me it has the most clarity or sparkle in the top end on things like Peg/Josie, to me anyway.. maybe a bit less happening in the mids and lows (?) than on the 4 x MCA's and MFSL CD.. but I really like it too! I'm not sure where I'm at.. or entirely who's masterings I have with the first 4 I mentioned but I know I like them all and that's unusual for me where if I have more than one version of the same album on CD there's ordinarily more audible differences and a lot of times a real clunker in the bunch sticks out but not here, so I guess for anyone who hasn't potentially gone overboard like me and bought what could well be 4 versions of the same thing, any of the MCA CD's with those cat. numbers and identifiers I'd say you'd be pretty well set up (and maybe "have a Hoffman"?) ..fwiw, I only have the latest remaster as an iTunes download and it sounds pretty good too but since I only ever play it 'on the go', I can't in all fairness compare it to the others which I only play in the comfort of my humble abode
First CD release - Victor Musical Industries, Inc., Tokyo, Japan (1984) Gaucho too - VDP-26 (I know, backwards). Both albums really sing on these CDs.
Let me guess, this is the hardest version to find also. I would love to hear it but I'm also pretty darn happy with the two versions I have.
I can't see any trace of a VDP-27 selling recently online sadly, so I guess it must be pretty rare I'll just have to satisfy myself with the 6 excellent 'different' CDs I have of it already until/unless a VDP comes along one day (pigs might fly!) Meantime, every cloud has a silver lining.. while searching for this VDP Aja on the Bay I found a minty MFSL Gaucho for £25 w/free post! Yeay! (Although I've got 5 versions of that one already too.. DTS CD, Surround SACD, DVD-Audio, MCLD 19146 and MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 ...but the differences between them are a bit more marked than with Aja and I believe the MFSL Gaucho is quite "unique"?!)
I always forget there was a MFSL Gaucho so maybe in some way it is more unique. The MFSL Gaucho has a speed issue from what I have read. It is discussed in other threads but there is an article where Nichols talks about it linked here [scroll to: A CD Scandal: MCA screws up-- the next article also mentions the tapes used for the MFSLs]. I am not saying it makes any difference, just saying. For Gaucho I really like the shm-sacd better than the 2003 sacd and the dvd-a [available now as part the shm-sacd 100 reissue progam]. I agree there are some bigger differences on this one.
