Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: Aja

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mdekoning, Aug 23, 2008.

  1. Alan1074

    Alan1074 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I didn't think much to the SACD of Aja compared to the standard in print CD, certainly compared to Gaucho 2003. So I haven't bought the later Gaucho SACD. Having spent over £100 on the last two Steely Dan SACDs I think I'm beginning to think these are getting chucked out without much TLC. My Royal Scam SHM to my ears sounds better than all of them, excepting Gaucho, which wasn't a Japanese release.
     
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  2. fredblue

    fredblue Surrounded by Music

    Location:
    London, England
    Yes! That's my impression of the Gaucho MFSL.. I'd heard about the speed issues (as alleged by the late great and yet still the Immortal Roger Nichols) and that generally it's not supposed to be much cop.. soon I can see/hear for meself! :D

    Good to hear your feedback on the SHM-SACD Gaucho I've not got it yet but I will.. I don't like the DVDA/Hybrid SACD in Stereo (I only play those in surround), I need to refresh my memory about the 80's MCA CDs I have, been a long time but I have a vague recollection they're not identical..
     
  3. fredblue

    fredblue Surrounded by Music

    Location:
    London, England
    Very interesting to hear, which mastering does The Royal Scam SHM-CD use? Oh and which one is Gaucho 2003?

    While I think about it, I have a couple of Royal Scam MCA CD's with different catalogue numbers (one is MCLD 19083 and the other is MCAD-37044 DIDX-370) I've had one of them for years (can't remember which now) and always enjoyed it, I got the other one more recently and I've never compared the two so they might sound different. Any ideas guys?

    I've got the remaster of Royal Scam on my iPhone and iPad too and I like it thru the earphones when I'm on the move, tho' I've never tried it thru the speakers at home so can't say how I feel about it Vs the old CD. I should try it all out one day.. maybe tomorrow if I'm still too icky to work!
     
  4. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Royal Scam SHM-CD = standard 1999 remaster
    Gaucho 2003 = original SACD, DVD-A

    MCLD 19083 = possibly original and best-sounding master (search dedicated thread)
    MCAD-37044 = possibly first "silent" remaster (search dedicated thread)
     
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  5. fredblue

    fredblue Surrounded by Music

    Location:
    London, England
    Thank you @Plan9 :righton:

    I'll check out the relevant thread! :)
     
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  6. Love_Vinyl

    Love_Vinyl New Member

    Location:
    Italy
    Hi guys,
    I like the sound with good soundstage and deep bass.

    I found 1991 edition with label universal / island, label MCA 1992 MCA label on year in 2000


    Which best printing cd album of "aja"?
     
  7. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    MCA DMCL 1745. Bar code 5011781174526. Mastered by Steve Hoffman.
     
  8. synchronizer

    synchronizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, U.S.A.
    Hello everyone. (Hopefully it is still appropriate to respond to this thread after there has been about a month and a half of inactivity.) I am interested in finding a good-quality Aja CD, but I am not necessarily focused on the Steve Hoffman mastering. It would be good to have a nice definitive version of the album to store on my computer and play.

    Having read through some of the Aja topics, I gather that the Nimbus discs *definitely* have Hoffman's mastering (version 7). (Mastering 3 is arguably a lightly-adjusted version of Steve Hoffman's mastering.)
    There don't appear to be any UK Nimbus discs on ebay for sale, but I see at least couple of other discs with familiar matrix numbers. Some of the CDs are fairly expensive.

    Are both of these mastering 3 as I suspect, or are they something else? Have I missed better alternatives?
    Matrix DIDX 000055-3, no barcode (The "3" is odd.):
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEELY-DAN-...DX-000055-3-/301646213715?hash=item463b83f253
    (Probably just a) regular 37214 Japan disc "for MCA, U.S.":
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEELY-DAN-...143ff94&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=291430953028

    Thank you for your help.
     
  9. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
    It is a-ok asking here, but with the number of matrix numbers floating around it is tough to pin down some times exactly what you are looking at and in the end you really don’t know without running the EAC numbers. You could ask the sellers to provide the matrix numbers and double check the list here http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...ent-masterings-aja.158372/page-5#post-4873268

    I think you will be quite happy with a mastering 3 which we think was Nichols mastering, it is very nice sounding. The two you are looking at seem ok; I think the MCAD-37214s without manufactured by JVC or CINRAM on it should be good to go for mastering 3.
     
  10. synchronizer

    synchronizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, U.S.A.
    Hm. The first link apparently has a "DIDX 000055-3" matrix, but the disc is called MCAD 37214 and was manufactured *in* the USA. Both of the codes are printed on the disc. That's a bit of a strange combination, and I wonder why the seller only asks for $9 whereas other sellers ask for ~$30.

    I will ask the seller for the matrix number on the second disc.

    There is also this listing with minor blemishes (Dimple marks?)
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEELY-DAN-...028?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43daa37044

    Matrix Number: MCAD-37214-T5E1 That is also strange. I see a T5E*2*1 on the list. Maybe the seller misread the code, the code wore away somehow, or this is an earlier version. I believe I see an extra 2 in there though.
     
  11. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    It can depend if the seller is aware of the audiophile properties of the '85 masterings. They're actually relatively common, and many folks dump their '85s for the '99s thinking that "if it's remastered, it must sound better" - which, as we've found, isn't necessarily the case for Steely Dan. ;)

    BTW - I found the Steve Hoffman mastering #7 for $4.00 in a used record store. (And a US store at that!)

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    fredblue likes this.
  12. synchronizer

    synchronizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, U.S.A.
    I haven't had much luck at record stores yet but I always look. Do either of those discs seem alright? Given the codes I think they are likely versions of mastering 3, but who knows? The $9 "Rare U.S." copy is enticing but suspicious, and the other ones have strange combinations of codes, but maybe they are the same as those on the list.
     
  13. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
    If it were me I would try the $9 one. Nothing rare about them other than the seller trying to play up the '85 version. As far as I know for Aja you are not going to do terribly wrong with any '85. I think as a new member after a certain amount of posts or time you will eventually get access to the classified buy/sell section. The Nimbus #7 SH masterings come up there occasionally as some of our SHF gang in the UK can get them pretty readily and kindly pass them along here at righteous prices, although it is a quick-draw timing game so follow the thread and stay sharp. I put a WTB in for one and got well taken care of. Only problem for me, and for your inevitable question, is my stereo is dismantled since getting it delivered due to redoing some rooms in the house and I have not had a chance to have a Mastering 3 v. Mastering 7 showdown yet, which I very much look forward to arranging. I will give you the blow by blow when and if I can get my act together.
     
    fredblue likes this.
  14. synchronizer

    synchronizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, U.S.A.
    I see. In that case I will try and be active so I can accumulate more (meaningful) posts. It is probably best to wait if I can find better potential deals here once the topic becomes available.

    Also, I am curious about your opinion regarding the two masterings, but there is no rush.
    Thanks!
     
  15. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
    I will let my contractor know!
     
  16. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I compared masterings 3 and 7, and while they were close, they didn't sound identical, and 7 was still better. It sounded purer.
    My guess is #3 is a data-corrupted copy or a copy-gone-wrong of #7.
    Same for #6.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  17. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks! Do you or someone else know which post in this thread lists all the different masterings?
     
  18. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
  19. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
    Interesting, so you think it sounds more like that is the case between the two than a different, presumably Nichols, mastering. I know we will never know and it is not worth digging this topic up, but I was curious about your opinion in particular.
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    You didn't ask me, and I haven't heard 7, but I have two copies of 3 (Japan for USA, MCA) and they both sound amazing! So amazing that I haven't sought out any other masterings for this album.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
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  21. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
  22. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    We (kinda) know this:
    and this:
    Then this comparing 3 to 6:
    So - it seems like 6 & 7 are very close to each other and 3 is different enough to show up in analysis. Note that the changes to 3 seem to be in the ballpark to the EQ changes Steve mentions.

    Remembering that mastering 7 was confirmed by Steve as his, I think 6 is a level shifted copy of 7, and I have this weird feeling that 3 is Roger's mastering, but derived from Steve's somehow.

    Could this be a digital copy with EQ applied? Doing a retransfer of the analog master tape wouldn't make them sync perfectly. But - I don't think we had digital EQ back in those days. Or did we?

    Either that, or they're all Steve's mastering, just slightly corrupted during copying. Do we really know that Roger did a transfer of this?

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  23. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    This could well be dither.

    We did.

    Wouldn't Roger's rather be #4 ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
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  24. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    That's an interesting thought. I had always assumed #4 was a variation on Glenn Meadows' mastering from Citizen Steely Dan. There were a batch of these titles issued by MCA prior to Roger's 1999 re-remastering. :)

    (As an example, check out masterings 2 & 4 in the Can't Buy A Thrill thread here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-cant-buy-a-thrill.154978/page-4#post-6339413. I see similarities in mastering 4 matrix numbers between Aja and Can't Buy A Thrill here.)

    (Aja mastering link here for reference: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...ent-masterings-aja.158372/page-5#post-4873268 )

    Has anyone compared these two? (i.e. Citizen Dan mastering 2 to Aja mastering 4)?

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
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  25. synchronizer

    synchronizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, U.S.A.
    I'm sure that 3 and 6 are good (6 is better still?), but version 3 is so common that I would much rather have a copy of 7, even if I need to wait a little longer. Would it be feasible to purchase the specific version of the album for approximately $20-30 in the now-invisible-to-me topic? (I assume that mastering 7 appears every so often.)
     

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