Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: Aja

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mdekoning, Aug 23, 2008.

  1. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    When you talk about the "Nichols's 84 mastering" in the first run of CDs, which mastering # is that in the following list? Are you saying it is #4, and if so, how did you determine that?
    Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: The Summary Thread
     
  2. van1

    van1 Forum Resident

    Has the non-nimbus uk version 19145 & 01 been added as a hoffman clone yet?

     
  3. BIGGER Dave

    BIGGER Dave Forum Resident

    Reading through the article, I learned that initially there were about 5,000 Hoffman mastered CD’s pressed, but then 4,000 were destroyed, leaving only about 1,000 in circulation. No wonder I’ve been having such a hard time finding one!

    MCA pressed around 5,000 CDs with Hoffman’s mastering, but as many as 4,000 of them were destroyed when the band decided they wanted Nichols to have control of their CD releases. While Hoffman’s mastering wasn’t supposed to be released, some nonetheless eventually found their way into stores. ”
     
  4. JoshM

    JoshM Forum Resident

    Yes, it’s mastering four in that list. It’s been documented by Nichols and others that that’s the Nichols mastering. Also, as noted in the article, all of the masterings sourced from the digital tapes (including both Nichols masterings) have the same flaws.

    As far as I know, that 1,000 number applies to the “confirmed” Hoffman mastering. I think the “clones,” which I confirmed in my column are indeed Hoffman’s mastering, are more plentiful.
     
  5. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Mastering four only appears in the US on releases of 1991 and later, so I don't think it is likely that it's the original 1984 Nichols mastering.
     
  6. JoshM

    JoshM Forum Resident

    It is the Nichols '84 mastering. Four is the Nichols '84 mastering. Three, Six, and Seven on that list are Hoffman or Hoffman clones. Eight is a unique Japan mastering. Five is MFSL. Two is the Meadows Citizen Dan mastering. One is the '99 Nichols remaster. All of the masterings sourced from Nichols's '80s digital tapes (the '84 Nichols, the Meadows, and the '99 Nichols) have the same glitches.

    Left off that older list is the more recent 2010 Japan mastering and 2018 MQA CD mastering, which I cover in my column.

    FWIW, the '84 Nichols mastering also did appear on CDs prior to 1991. The date on the MCAD-37214 DIDX 55 CD is 1984, for example. So I think that might just be a case of Discogs having an error.
     
    pudgym and c-eling like this.
  7. GeoffC

    GeoffC Forum Resident

    Recently checked a copy of Aja I have which has a different Matrix code to those in the list - but I presume it will just be a Mastering 3 ?

    MCA Japan for USA 1984 MCAD-37214 DIDX 55 (no barcode) / Matrix: MCAD 37214 T6E11
     
  8. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Have you checked the EAC peaks? It's the best way to verify.
     
    Paul P. likes this.
  9. GeoffC

    GeoffC Forum Resident

    Thank you for the reply but it don't have the software to do that. Is it straight forward (on a PC) to install and run?
     
  10. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    It's been awhile since I installed EAC, but I dont recall it being difficult.
     
  11. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    It's pretty easy - feel free to ask questions if you run into trouble, etc.

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
  12. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Looks like Paul will help out if needed, @GeoffC
     
  13. GeoffC

    GeoffC Forum Resident

    Thank you I will take a look at that.
     
  14. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    How did it go?

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    George P likes this.
  15. GeoffC

    GeoffC Forum Resident

    Stacked out with work and deadlines to make so no free time yet - I will get to it at the soonest opportunity!
     
    George P likes this.
  16. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Oh - not rushing you - just making sure it didn't get lost. :)

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    GeoffC likes this.
  17. somedusty

    somedusty Member

    Location:
    Japan
    I have the 1991-95 Japan unique mastering CD.

    Catalog No.MCA Japan MCVM18520 (reissue of 1991 release)

    EAC peak levels (in order) - 100.0 % 99.2 % 100.0 % 92.0 % 100.0 % 73.8 % 100.0 %

    This CD doesn’t have the flaws that the Nichols '84 mastering has (for example : click at 1:02 on Black Cow)
     
  18. somedusty

    somedusty Member

    Location:
    Japan
    And the 1991-95 Japan unique mastering CD (Catalog No.MCA Japan MCVM18520) has the most highest DR score of the Aja’s CDs. The score is 16.
     
  19. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Not sure if it is true in this case, but DR can often be increased simply by reducing bass frequencies or adding treble.
     
    Plan9 likes this.
  20. somedusty

    somedusty Member

    Location:
    Japan
    Anyway, the 1991-1995 Japan mastering is most comfortable for my ears.
     
  21. somedusty

    somedusty Member

    Location:
    Japan
    As an exrta edition, I let you know the mastering information about the 2010 Japanese single layer SACD. It was transfered from the Japanese copy of the master tape. The mastering engineer is Hitoshi Takiguchi.
    I ripped SACD to DSD files in a way and then transfered them to 16-44.1 WAV files.

    Label : Universal Music
    Catalog No. : UIGY9026
    EAC peak levels : 100% (all tracks)
    DR score : 12
     
  22. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Not sure how you have converted from DSD to PCM, but using the Analyze Audio tool in JRiver shows that the SHM-SACD peak levels differ from track to track.

    DR values given are: 13 / 13 / 14 / 12 / 13 / 13 / 13
     
    Plan9 likes this.
  23. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    The original dynamics will suffer if one decodes the DSD data incorrectly. According to the specs a DSD rip needs 6 dB of gain after transcoding to PCM. Many tools do this automatically. I will always check the peak levels after decoding, and only add as much gain as needed for the highest peak to get close to 0 dB. On many SACDs this is actually less than 6 dB.
     
    Plan9 likes this.
  24. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Not to get too far off topic but this is because Sony Japan complicated the SACD specification after problems were reported with the Thriller SACD on players which converted to PCM for playback -- they were introducing hard clipping. Up to that point, 0 dBSACD had been defined as 50% DSD modulation, which meant that it was possible to exceed this level and still have clean audio. Many (most?) DSD DACs could handle this higher level, especially on transients, but if you convert to PCM anything over 50% is clipped, because the translation is 0 dBSACD = 0 dBPCM. Rather than recall the Thriller disc which was out of spec., Sony Japan revised the maximum level definition to allow momentary peaks to +3 dBSACD! So, as you write, a fixed offset is not correct, and care is needed when doing SACD (DSD) to PCM conversions to avoid clipping or too low a level (if you go too far the other way).
     
    Plan9 and Yost like this.
  25. somedusty

    somedusty Member

    Location:
    Japan
    It is said that the Katy Lied CD pressed in Germany in early 80’s was transferred from the mastering by S. Hoffman. How about the Aja CD ? Why not Germany but UK come from Hoffman’s ?
     

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