Which of these fit into the catagory of the "Joel Cairo post" (the post where he confirmed with Steve that some of these "close" discs are not his mastering - I assume Steve would recognize his own work.)?
Um, maybe I should have just said that in the other Aja thread, there was some speculation that the minor differences being seen could be the result of EAC reporting, not actual mastering differences. Perhaps the idea was that the peak levels were percentages and subject to rounding errors, or perhaps EAC was not able to read accurately in some cases. Anyhow, I was just trying to recall what others had said there. It's buried somewhere in that thread!
I was speculating about that as well when I compiled the EAC peak levels back then, but I have compared the three "almost identical" masterings. They are 100% in synch, but they do not cancel out completely; a very low volume remainder is left. Technically, these are 3 different masterings, and EAC was accurate in reading the levels.
One more thing about the following three masterings: Mastering 3: 90.8 --- 91.7 --- 90.6 --- 88.7 --- 96.3 --- 86.2 --- 97.6 (MCAD 37214, Made In Japan or US) Mastering 6: 90.7 --- 91.7 --- 90.8 --- 88.9 --- 96.3 --- 86.2 --- 97.5 (MCD 01745, Made In Germany) Mastering 7: 90.7 --- 91.7 --- 90.8 --- 88.9 --- 96.3 --- 86.1 --- 97.5 (MCLD 19145, Made In England) I subtracted the audio information for all two pairs from these two masterings for the song Black Cow, which means I trimmed the beginnings of the audio files and did a null inversion test. As I wrote above, the basically cancel out but with a remainder. But the results are interesting: Mastering 3 - mastering 6: Peak level 0.7%, distorted version of the song audible Mastering 3 - mastering 7: Peak level 0.7%, distorted version of the song audible (similar to the one above) Mastering 6 - Mastering 7: Peak level 0.1%, only white noise
There's another thread where the issue of what constitutes a "different mastering" is being debated: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=158716 At any rate, it seems fairly obvious to me that these three, at the very least, are sourced from the same (Steve's?) digital master, and that two of them are slightly-tampered-with (by the pressing plants?) digital clones of the third. It is, quite literally, impossible to have three seperate digital transfers of the same analog tape that result in digital copies that are that close and synch up that perfectly. The only explanation for the subtle differences when they're put through that sort of null inversion testing is that the exact same digital information was very slightly manipulated (intentionally or not). Is it enough for the "naked ear" to hear a difference? I'm sure it is. Would I call it a "different mastering"? No, probably not.
All 3 are obviously from the same digital transfer. Maybe a mastering engineer changed something slightly in the very low frequencies (I don't see why anybody would), but the original source is the exact same digital tape.
I have two US editions of Aja that both have the catalog number MCAD-37214. They both have different masterings. One disc is made in Japan without a barcode on the back cover artwork and has DIDX 55 printed on the spine. The other is made in the USA and has a barcode on the back and does not have DIDX 55 printed anywhere on the back cover or spine, but does have it printed in the liner notes. Unfortunately, I'm on a Mac so I can't use EAC to post peak levels. The timing on the made in Japan is 39:55 in iTunes and the made in the USA is 39:58. I believe the made in Japan is the Hoffman mastering from what I've read, but I could be wrong. I hope this doesn't confuse things more, but here are some WAV files of both discs with the same exact start and end times set in iTunes for each sample. At the least, it might give an idea in the sound of some of the mastering differences: Made in Japan (matrix info stamped on the inner ring MCAD-37214-U7C22): Track: Aja http://www.sendspace.com/file/3ydxqv Made in USA (matrix info printed on the inner ring MFG BY UNI, MCAD37214 A51202Nb) Track: Aja http://www.sendspace.com/file/z3egqn Made in Japan (matrix info stamped on the inner ring MCAD-37214-U7C22): Track: Deacon Blues http://www.sendspace.com/file/3at9od Made in USA (matrix info printed on the inner ring MFG BY UNI, MCAD37214 A51202Nb) Track: Deacon Blues http://www.sendspace.com/file/6pqlcs
Made in Japan (matrix info stamped on the inner ring MCAD-37214-U7C22): Track: Aja http://www.sendspace.com/file/3ydxqv This matches the CD I have of SH's mastering.
Sweet! Thanks for your input! That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't completely sure. It seemed to match Steve's comments on what to listen for compared to what I could hear from the other disc.
I remember reading in that other Aja thread that Steve was sent a copy that had mastering #3 and he said that it was not his mastering.
Remember, most of the Ajas on CD were mastered by Roger Nicolis. unless, what really happened is that Steve's mastering was just cloned and used on most of the CDs. (which might explain why steve said the suspect CDs were not exactly his mastering)
Possibly...either that, or the mastering that MCA got out from the Non-Nichols approved analog masters(he sent them digital masters he made, to use for the CD's). Mastering 8 is the first one ever released, though. I had this before it even showed up at all in the U.S. on a 'For The U.S.' CD in 1984, from one of the very few CD importers at the time.
I always assumed that #4 (the "bright" one) was Nicols, but I'll admit that's based on nothing else other than the fact that the others (3/6/7) from that era are Steve's. I've never personally heard it, but I don't believe #8 is Nicols. There were early Japan-for-Japan pressings of both Aja (VDP-27) and Gaucho (VDP-26) that I believe were produced by MCA Japan independant of anything Nichols was providing. The Gaucho disc, at least, is very different than its contemporary Japan-for-USA version (MCAD-37220 DIDX 56), which is assumed to be the Nichols mastering. My guess is that both the VDP discs, like a lot of early Japanese pressings, were simply mastered from the tape copies MCA Japan had on-hand for their vinyl pressings.
That's what I think is true. Nobody has been able to identify the Nichols mastering, while the most generally available unremastered Aja is so very close to Steve's mastering. There might have been an engineer who has messed with the low frequencies (which would explain why Steve has claimed it not to be his work), but it is a fact that 3, 6 & 7 all feature the same source tape.
I just checked your file, and it is identical to the MCA 37214 disc with the levels 90.8/91.7/90.6/88.7/96.3/86.2/97.6, i.e. mastering 3. It is not the SH mastering in the technical sense. The SH mastering is found on the following disc: MCLD 19145 (printed on CD label) "Made In England" printed on CD label. Inner ring text: "A1388 DMCL 1745 : 1:0", "IFPI L123" [appears in small print twice on inner ring], "Mastered By Nimbus". http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1805970&postcount=5 http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3428560&postcount=223 The levels are those listed under mastering 7. mdekoning, could you please update the list?
That is what I stated earlier, that mine was mastering 3, which is from the SH master, and his CD matches mine, and mine was derived from the SH mastering. Do you have a clip of "Mastering #7" to share?
Isn't it safe to assume that the "bright" mastering is the Roger Nichols mastering? This one seems to have the running time that pops up in the forum when spotting a non-SH mastering. I'm guessing that of the clips I posted earlier that the non-SH made in the USA disc I have is the Nichols mastering: http://www.sendspace.com/file/z3egqn
I guess? I'm not sure. I have two copies of Aja. One of them is an early Made in Japan disc that LesPaul666 was able to identify as the SH mastering. The other copy I have is also a MCAD-37214, but has a barcode on the back cover and is made in the USA. This one sounds brighter to me and has a longer running time than my made in Japan disc. I don't have EAC so I'm not sure of the peak levels. Here's the first 30 seconds of Black Cow from the brighter made in the USA disc. The matrix info is MFG BY UNI, MCAD37214 A51202Nb: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ja6x4p
I just did a comparison of the #7 and # 3 clips, and I must say, they are the same. If there was *any* changes between these at all, they were the result of digital duplication of the digital master. Get as technical as you want, but these are from the same master, no eq'ing, nothing changed. Maybe a level shift between the different pressings(as we've seen) that may have caused low-level artifacts, that are inaudible.
