Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: The Summary Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bmoregnr, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. proedros

    proedros Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens , Greece
    ok , the japan version of aja sounds kinda dull , next to the nimbus and the west german versions of aja (which sounds as good if not better than the SH , but we are talking very very small differences here...)

    will keep these 2 and i am good i guess

    now on to gaucho test hearings.

    edit : so for gaucho the 2 preferred versions are

    2013 - Geffen Records / UICY-40018 / Remastered Platinum SHM-CD

    and this 1984 reissue

    Steely Dan - Gaucho

    am i missing something ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  2. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Yes - if your West German is what we're calling Mastering 3 or Mastering 6 from here: Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: The Summary Thread, then you'll find that the differences between this one and Nimbus are small. (Personally, I have Mastering 3 and the Nimbus aka Mastering 7.)

    There's been some discussion about where the Nimbus was originally sourced from - some say it's the original Hoffman mastering, some say it's a modified version of 3/6 - but regardless, it's very, very good indeed.

    The Nimbus is definitely my go-to if I'm showing off Aja.

    Gaucho is a different story. It's been fairly confirmed that the original stereo master tape of Gaucho has been lost, and that most modern stereo versions - say post 2000 or so - are from a 16 bit safety. See here: Gaucho 2003 SACD.

    Note: This doesn't apply to the multi-track remixes - only the CD & SACD stereo mixes.

    If the SACD you're looking at is the Japanese 1st gen safety copy edition, that should sound pretty good, based on what I've read - I don't have this one.

    Personally, I use Mastering 3 from here: Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: The Summary Thread as my main Gaucho go-to.

    I should add that I have quite a few Steely Dan variants - Citizen Steely Dan boxset, a complete set of the 2000 Nichols remasters, the DTS Gaucho, the US SACD of Gaucho, the Japanese SACD of Countdown to Ecstasy, etc. I'm just listing my preferred standard CDs.

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  3. proedros

    proedros Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens , Greece
    i got /downloaded the FLAC files for these 4 gaucho versions , i guess i am good here - all this matrix thing makes my brain hurt :)

    Steely Dan - Gaucho (1980) {1984 Japan DIDX 56 MCAD-37220} [FLAC]
    Steely Dan - Gaucho (1980) {1984 US MCAD-37220} [FLAC]
    Steely Dan - Gaucho (1980) {1991 MFSL UDCD 545} [FLAC]
    Steely Dan - Gaucho (1980) {2013 Remaster SHM-CD UICY-40018} [FLAC]


    i will just listen to all 4 of them and keep 1 , maybe 2 best
     
  4. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Sorry - can't help you here - I use the EAC/XLD peak values to determine the editions. According to the link I posted, Mastering 3 is

    MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: 11340-I5-9274-1-M
    MCA Austria MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix: MCD-01814 13 B3 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTRIA
    MCA Austria MCD 01814/DMCL 1814 / Matrix: MCD-01814 13 A6 MASTERED BY DADC AUSTRIA
    MCA 1984 USA CD MCAD-37220 DIDX 56 / Matrix: 37220 RE4 1D​

    I think that matches the 2nd one in your list. Using EAC/XLD peak values is the definitive way of telling these editions apart.

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    proedros likes this.
  5. rockclassics

    rockclassics Senior Member

    Location:
    Mainline Florida
    Let us know your preference and thoughts on them.
     
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  6. proedros

    proedros Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens , Greece
    first 2 sound very nice , i think if you guys listen to full speakers any version should be more than fine

    my in ear monitors are very neutral and TOTL and i have a hard time finding a difference from the first 2 versions

    2013 shm also sounds good , maybe a tad more loud but not in a bad way

    i love gaucho so much that i can sit and listen to it 3-4 times in a row

    (maybe 5 , as i have an urge now to listen to a stellar US RL vinyl rip i have in 24/96)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
    rockclassics likes this.
  7. rockclassics

    rockclassics Senior Member

    Location:
    Mainline Florida
    I have read where the RL mastering is the one to get for vinyl. May have to track down a needledrop to hear it.
     
  8. Starquest

    Starquest ‎ ‎ ‎

    Location:
    Twin Cities, MN
    I recently compared the Gaucho 1991 MFSL (on flac) to the Citizen Box Set (also flac). The box set absolutely blows away the MFSL. It's much clearer.
     
  9. FLY Wright

    FLY Wright Active Member

    Hello my Goucho-amigos. As the story goes, some time during the 80's Steely CD's that were marked ADD were actually AAD.

    Question 1

    Do we know for certain when that shift happened? Was there a particular pressing or year?

    Question 2

    I remember reading earlier in the thread that some members really liked the non ADD discs.
    My question is, has anybody done a shootout lately between the ADD and not-so ADD discs? Which, I guess boils down to the question--how good were those digital tape masters from the early 80's?

    Also want to thank you all for a great thread; it's been a lot of fun tracking down used Steely CD's these past few months.
     
    bmoregnr likes this.
  10. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    The second D in ADD means Digital mixing. None of the 70s-80s Steely Dan albums were mixed digitally and they were never remixed digitally.

    What happened is that the analogue stereo masters were carefully transfered to digital in the early 80s by the Steely Dan team. These digital masters were supposed to be the official sources for every subsequent CD releases.

    The labels didn't care and made their own analogue to digital transfers, from copy tapes or not, for the first batch of CD releases, which were, on the whole, not as good as the official transfers.
    To complicate things, there were exceptions, like the Steve Hoffman masters for Aja and Katy Lied, which are fantastic (still the best Aja, ever, for me).
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  11. WiWavelength

    WiWavelength Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    No, that is not the consensus.

    The first batch of CDs were the 1984-1985 MCAD-37xxx CSR Japan for US or JVC Japan for US pressings of the first five albums. Those were the Nichols or Hoffman masterings. The unintended secret retransfers/remasters came later in the 1980s or early 1990s during the MCAD-31xxx reissue period. Those reissues carry the AAD/ADD SPARS codes on disc, and some are the original transfers, others the secret remasters, depending upon specific disc matrices.

    AJ
     
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  12. Musicisthebest

    Musicisthebest Exiled Yorkshireman

    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Are you saying there's a better Katy Lied out there than Steve's?
     
  13. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Thanks for the correction, I had the timing wrong.
     
  14. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I have heard needledrops from a well-known ripper that I prefer. The difference is not huge though.
     
    Musicisthebest likes this.
  15. FLY Wright

    FLY Wright Active Member


    Thanks! That's what I was after. So basically go for 84-85 to be sure. Does the Japanese CD's sound better or is that ebay hubris?
     
  16. rockclassics

    rockclassics Senior Member

    Location:
    Mainline Florida
    I have never come across a Hoffman mastered Katy Lied that I know of. I only have the non remastered disc.

    Do you have any details on the vinyl pressing of the rip?
     
    Keith V likes this.
  17. RockNRod

    RockNRod Forum Resident

    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    Can someone summarize all 25 pages in an excel file for me? Just kidding, wait no I'm not.
     
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  18. winders

    winders Music Lover

    Location:
    San Martin, CA
    Come on....the first 8 posts of this thread summarize it all quite well.....
     
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  19. RockNRod

    RockNRod Forum Resident

    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    I just meant that since those posts were from 2016 and now we are up to page 25 that there may have been additional updates?
     
  20. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, 24 pages of updates.
     
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  21. RockNRod

    RockNRod Forum Resident

    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    Argh!
     
  22. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Not really in masterings, no. A few new Japanese variants - a few more older pressings discovered - but the basic masterings have remained consistent since the 2000 remaster.

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    bmoregnr likes this.
  23. RockNRod

    RockNRod Forum Resident

    Location:
    Green Bay, WI
    Thanks Paul that helps.
     
    bmoregnr likes this.
  24. JoshM

    JoshM Forum Resident

    Worth noting that there are some newish MQA CDs not covered in this thread that are new (very good) masterings, even if MQA as a format stinks.
     
  25. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    This post matches your avatar perfectly!

    Seriously, after all these years, the early Japan for USA MCA CDs remain the best I have heard for the first album through Gaucho. They can be found cheap too.
     
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