Steely Dan CDs Different Masterings: The Summary Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bmoregnr, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I can confirm that the following CD also has mastering 3:

    MCA US MCAD-37214 DIDY 000055 CRC (no barcode) / Matrix: DIDX-000055 3 / DADC stamped on hub
     
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  2. Keith V

    Keith V Forum Resident

    Location:
    Secaucus, NJ
    Besides the speed issue on Gaucho, and aside from what Roger Nichols thought, how bad was that second run?
     
  3. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Not bad. :winkgrin:
     
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  4. ti-triodes

    ti-triodes Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    Got to thank all you guys who did the leg work on getting this info. I stupidly sold most of my old MCA CD's when the remastered series came out and then wondered why I wasn't listening to the Dan any more.
    I spent 6 months at used record stores glaring at matrix numbers but I'm finally basking in sweet Dan bliss again.


    :agree:



    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Keith V

    Keith V Forum Resident

    Location:
    Secaucus, NJ
    Because of that article I was afraid to buy Steely Dan CDs. I waited Til Citizen came out.... complete with missing Rikki intro.
     
  6. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Just FYI, Citizen uses the Meadows mastering, same as the discs in question. :)

    The re-remastering appears to have started with Gold, and includes the 1999-2000 era discs.

    So - oversimplifying greatly - there's three basic mastering eras for the US and European discs:

    • '85 era flat transfers - glitches on a few tracks. Done by Roger Nichols with two believed to be done by our host.
    • '90s era remaster - EQ'd a bit, a little bit louder, possibly some minor tape wear compared to the '85's. Done by Glenn Meadows.
    • 2000 final remaster - EQ'd even more and the loudest (but not clipping). Original tapes were reconstructed and mastered by Roger Nichols.
    NOTE: This doesn't count the discs issued in Japan - those seem to have their own sources and mastering engineers.

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
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  7. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Shhh - don't tell anyone, but I kind of like the Katy Lied mastering from that run. :)

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
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  8. WiWavelength

    WiWavelength Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    For "Gaucho," I still need to get a Japan for Japan or Japan for US mastering to satisfy my collector curiosity. Where does the 20P2 Warner-Pioneer Forever Young reissue fit on the list? Is it the same mastering as the 32XD?

    AJ
     
  9. Merrick

    Merrick The return of the Thin White Duke

    Location:
    Portland
    I compared the Gaucho SACD, I think it was the 2003 one but I'm not sure, against the MFSL CD. The MFSL blew it out of the water. Just a terrific disc.
     
  10. WiWavelength

    WiWavelength Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Two other Japan for Japan "Gaucho"...

    MVCM-21021 (MCAD-37220) (1991) -- Per Dynamic Range Database entry, appears to match Mastering 3.

    Babylon Sisters: 20 log (91.5/100) = -0.77 dB
    Hey Nineteen: 20 log (86.4/100) = -1.27 dB
    Album details - Dynamic Range Database

    MVCM-18521 (MCAD-37220) (1997)-- Per Dynamic Range Database entry, appears to match Mastering 8.

    Babylon Sisters: 20 log (81.2/100) = -1.80 dB
    Hey Nineteen: 20 log (74.7/100) = -2.53 dB
    Album details - Dynamic Range Database

    AJ
     
  11. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident Thread Starter

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
    When you say original I assume you mean analog? Maybe you mean the digital tape copies done in the early 80's though. I was always under the impression those '98-'00 remasters were from the analog tapes, and perhaps their poor condition is why more eq was needed; but someone on another thread questioned that recently, and after looking pretty hard I couldn't find any definitive information.

    It made me think that since Nichols sure seemed to feel his digital transfers were far better than the analog tapes for roughly the preceding 15 years, why he would have changed his mind and used the analog tapes again, except if the artist or label were telling him they should be used.

    I don't have those CDs anymore but this seemed to be the hype sticker, and interesting to me it says new digital remastering, which of course could mean many things while not explicitly saying from the original analog master tapes.

    * THE CLASSIC ORIGINAL ALBUM
    NEW DIGITAL REMASTERING
    Supervised by The Artists
    With All Original Graphics & Lyrics,

    PLUS NEW LINER NOTES BY
    WALTER BECKER & DONALD FAGEN
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
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  12. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    The 2003 Gaucho SACD stereo is mastered from a 16bit/44.1kHz digital copy of the master tape and quite compressed. Much better options out there, including the 2010 Japanese SHM-SACD.
    But the 2003 SACD also contains the 5.1 remix which is exceptionnal.
     
  13. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Yes - original analog tapes.

    It doesn't appear that they were ever able to use those 3M digital copies created in 1985, from the history I've been able to figure out.

    I found info in this post, that I wrote here: Steely Dan - Countdown to Ecstasy SHM-SACD on 7/30/2014

    "In 1997 we tried to transfer the old Steely Dan two-track masters again with newer technology. Because of the additional 15 years of deterioration, the digital transfers done in 1981 sounded much better than anything we could do in 1997. "

    It does seem like he used the original tapes for the mastering in 1997, but still preferred his earlier transfers - hence possibly why the added EQ. That's about all I know. :)

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
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  14. Jason Pumphrey

    Jason Pumphrey Forum Resident

    Is there any mastering of Katy Lied that don't have that strange tape anomaly at the beginning of Doctor Wu?
     
  15. Paul P.

    Paul P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    What anomaly is that? Can you give the track time and/or a description of the signature so I can listen for it?

    Cheers,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  16. DennisF

    DennisF Forum Resident

    Steve Hoffman's mastering.
     
  17. yohalfprice

    yohalfprice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    I wondered the same (re the 20P2) so I bought one and checked. It has the same mastering as the 32XD, #8. The matrix on mine is 20p2-2056 11A7 +++++.
     
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  18. Natvecal.

    Natvecal. JUST A LOW- FI GUY WHO LOVES A GREAT MASTERING

    Location:
    Oceanside,CA.
    Just got ( from the UK) AJA MCLD 19145 barcode o8811 91452 3 NOW, here's where things get different. On CD face MCLD 19145 . Matrix MCLD19145 01 & . Nothing else within that ring. Inside that ring is so hard to read 1FP1 04B9 (or [FP] 04B9 it it really hard to read this print . Also with in that ring , MADE IN THE UK BY UNIVERSAL and I think a letter or two AFTER that (M ?) No NIMBUS or OTHER matrix # that's been posted here as MASTERING 7 (HOFFMAN) anyone know/have THIS one ?
     
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  19. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    1FP1 is actually IFPI or ifpi, a Source IDentification (SID) code to identify the pressing equipment. Introduced in 1994 to fight piracy. It probably list Universal M&L, which indicates it was pressed between April 1999 to April 2002.

    It's probably just a pressing variant of the remaster. Personally I didn't like the remaster.
     
  20. Natvecal.

    Natvecal. JUST A LOW- FI GUY WHO LOVES A GREAT MASTERING

    Location:
    Oceanside,CA.
    I just read the link info you provided thanks for the info. MY CD therefore could NOT be from before 1994 according to this.(#$%&*@!!!!!) Thought I had at least a cloned Hoffman here.
     
  21. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    Somehow this Discogs listing claims that the Hoffman mastering is on a 2000 release. Could that really be true? There is so little info in this listing that it might be yours. Maybe I'm just too negative and you might be lucky. Don't throw it away yet, just start listening! :goodie:
     
  22. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident Thread Starter

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
    Can you run the EAC numbers @Natvecal.? It is pretty easy and there are free software solutions so let us know if you want to give it a crack, but that might be the only way to confirm. If so let us know mac or pc.
     
  23. Natvecal.

    Natvecal. JUST A LOW- FI GUY WHO LOVES A GREAT MASTERING

    Location:
    Oceanside,CA.
    I ripped this CD and it is VERY similar to MCAD 37214 DIDX 000055 CD I have ( times on some tracks off by a sec or 2) I was reading through the The AJA different masterings thread that you condensed down and some one had the same disc as mine (no mention of SID code though) but, SAME matrix # . I'll try to find that. Never done EAC numbers .Sounds like it's time for me to . I have a PC. thanks for the help and response. It might be later today or tonight that I get to this.
     
  24. Natvecal.

    Natvecal. JUST A LOW- FI GUY WHO LOVES A GREAT MASTERING

    Location:
    Oceanside,CA.
    No, I won't be throwing any CD way. But. thanks for the input.
     
  25. bmoregnr

    bmoregnr Forum Rezident Thread Starter

    Location:
    1060 W. Addison
    Yeah no rush, just ask and someone will walk you through it. I am mac so less of a help. What did you use to rip it as it may already have the EAC feature.
     

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