Steve, questions: Your time at Warner Bros. Pictures restoring movie & cartoon scores

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by CardinalFang, Dec 31, 2007.

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  1. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA

    Well, reading that just kills. Even if the stuff is toxic, I hate reading that it's been turned landfill, meaning that if, in the future, someone decides that there's something they want restored...it can't happen.
     
  2. Studio_Two

    Studio_Two Forum Resident

    Hi Steve,

    Forgive me, but what exactly does UNSYNCED mean.

    Was this some sort of multi-track archiving project (nothing to do with the actual film as such)?

    TIA,
    Stephen
     
  3. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Steve, maybe they kept the stuff you didn't transfer, after you left the project? Or even some of the original parts you worked with? I mentioned in the other thread about the parts being found to some but not all of the ROBIN AND THE 7 HOODS stuff. Maybe some other movies, etc. too? From the Sinatra In Hollywood box :

     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles

    The idea was to preserve the music separately. Unsynced means the orchestra was by itself, chorus, etc. on separate reels. Have to sync up in the digital domain. A pain!
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Just stuff that was luckily misfiled probably.
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The movies survive, that's what matters. This is just music alone, nice but not essential for a restoration.

    If WB Records/Rhino ever does THE MUSIC MAN on an LP maybe you can hear some of the results of this amazing sync-up; it's really neat. Not so different performance wise from the original soundtrack LP but it is more dynamic with no distracting reverb.
     
  7. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    Does exisiting 35mm mag require baking just like traditional magentic tape, or is it an entirely different beast?
     
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    No idea about modern mag needing baking. Nothing before 1974 needs to be baked, mag or tape.
     
  9. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    True enough...I had forgotten that the baking came about from the 70's formulas......my bad.

    In the 35MM Mag realm, what kind of problems arise from poor storage?
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Define "Poor storage"..
     
  11. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    Anything that would prevent you from taking the tape/reel out of the box and slapping it on a playback unit and instantly playing it.

    I guess what I'm wondering is how 35mm mag deteriorates under bad conditions in comparison to regular tape.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Well, too hot would be bad, leaving outside would be bad, getting too wet would be bad. Backing could warp.

    Most mag was stored in dry vaults though. The fatal problem is the reaction of the metal reel or container with the binding on the film. It makes the mag decompose, hence the oxygen mask..

    Other than that I found it stable..

    The "green mag" from Todd-AO of AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS was stored in an "outside vault" at Todd-AO on Seward Street for 35 years and we could play it instantly. It was stored in cheap cardboard though. The stuff stored in the metal was shedding and smelling like crazy...
     
  13. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    Once it starts to stink and shed, is there any way to halt the deterioration, or does re-boxing it into modern cases just slow down the death?

    (BTW...thanks for the Q&A, Steve. I love this stuff! Now, I'm headed out to get the snow out of my driveway!)
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Nothing will stop it. Transfer and hope for the best.

    The Curse Of old Mag: Metal cans and reels; a lesson learned too late.
     
  15. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    How lots of stuff has gotten saved over the years! :)
     
  16. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey

    Hopefully all your restored copies still play...
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    All my DAT's still play, I'm sure it will be fine, whatever shoebox they are stored in at the vault.
     
  18. chrswlkrc

    chrswlkrc New Member

    Location:
    east coast
    I think Volume 2 has more of the hi-fi stuff. It must've been really neat to work with those tapes. I had no idea you were involved in these; if only you had worked on mastering both of the CD's, that would've been fantastic. The raw scoring sessions on the DVD's are amazing.

    I had no idea that optical recordings could sound good. All I've heard is muddy, grainy sounding audio.
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It's fun stuff but a little goes a long way for me. Everything is "clicktracked" and I can hear the damn thing in Milt's one-eared headphone on the tapes. Drives me bonkers. :agree:
     
  20. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    Are there any online samples posted of the HI-FI stuff?
     
  21. indy mike

    indy mike Forum Pest

  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That Carl Stalling music is so difficult to play. Some of the takes go to like 30 tries before they get a 24 second segment correct to the satisfaction of all. So hard to play when the ONLY PERSON WHO CAN HEAR THE CLICK TRACK IS THE CONDUCTOR!!!! I couldn't do it!
     
  23. I presume they have a good magnetic sound print, so the 5.1 track will come from that.

    Warner are releasing another two early CinemaScope films in April, Kismet and Hit the Deck both released by M.G.M. in 1955. Both DVDs will have 5.0 and 5.1 sound tracks. My guess is the 5.0 track is a direct transfer off an original magnetic print, whereas the 5.1 track will probably processed to send some of the bass to the .1 channel. I doubt they have the separate dialogue, sound effects, and music master.
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    MGM kept a lot from this era so you never know. KISMET and DECK would have been four track (left/center/right and back).

    That stereo PETE is probably from a collector mag print. That's how they salvaged THE HIGH AND THE MIGHTY in four channel; Wayne's personal (faded) print..
     
  25. Yeah, it seems that Warner take the back channel (which was really auditorium effects) and send it to both the Right Back and Left Back Dolby Digital channels.
    Heh, not my favourite early 'Scope film, but I'm glad the mag audio was saved. The success of H&TM prompted Wayne to produce Track of the Cat also for director William Wellman. I think it is a far better early 'Scope film, that was also released in 1954. The DVD features a good 4.0 track, but it is the secondary track on the DVD, by default it starts with a 2.0 track. Possibly this is because the 4.0 was artificially re-channeled, but it sounds original to me. Maybe it was just an authoring mistake?

    The use of stereo, and surround, is very interesting in the period. They tended to mix the audio relative to each actor's location on the screen. They split the screen into thirds, and as soon as an actor moves from one third to the other, their dialogue will fade across the channels.

    This produces some strange effects when an actor's position changes over a cut. For example, sometimes an actor's voice repeatedly flips from far Right to far Left over a cut, which is so extreme that it emphasises the stereo sound. It kind of reminds me of early stereo music recordings when the instruments and vocal were often hard right and left, without much in the middle.
     
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