Vai played with a lot of artists and his solo career only really came along a little later. We have another Zappa album, Steve's time with David Lee Roth, Alcatraz and Public Image Ltd before we get to Passion and Warefare, which was actually his first real solo album, as Flex-able was some studio experiments that he ended up releasing, even though they weren't recorded with release in mind. We are actually racing through the Zappa years with this in mind. I suppose I could have just posted the main tracks Vai made a difference to in Zappa's band, but the thing is, in spite of everyone always saying Steve is just a shredder, I think the Zappa albums clearly show Steve's ability to be a band member and do what the song requires rather than just burn it up. We'll get to the solo albums, please have patience.
Good points, especially with respect to Flex-able. I never viewed it as a proper album, and have always considered Passion And Warfare Steve’s debut solo album, an album that made a huge statement upon its release.
Moggio We start with the now ubiquitous snork, and move into a fantastic piece of music, that dances along beautifully. Here we hear Vai quite clearly, playing Zappa's very technically demanding lines and melodies, and we get synth and Ed Mann, giving us a great percussion display. The melody here is infectious, and the construction and execution of this track is wonderful. This track originally ended side one of the album, and I would say on a high note. I the later cd release it ends up closing the album, and I understand why he did that, because it really is a great way to go out. This may be a fairly short track but it is jammed packed full of wholesome Zappa goodness, and very digestible.
The Man From Utopia Meets Mary Lou One thing I love in an album is a smooth diversity, and on this album, we have that in abundance. This is a composite of two older tracks. Here is the original Man From Utopia by Donald Woods and the Vel-Aires and Mary Lou Mary Lou Look this may be considered lightweight by the hardcore folks, but this is a wonderful tribute to two songs that are somewhat obscure.... to me at least. The construction between the songs is beautiful and works really works well. We get the Zappa band really getting backing vocals down well, and we get that return to doo wop that Zappa loved so much. The groove is great, and I just reckon this is a great way to start side two. Works for me. The Man From Utopia Meets Mary Lou
Moggio is far and away the best thing on the album. Very 'Zappa', and you can hear where Steve gets plenty of inspiration for some of his own stuff, for decades to come. Quintessential Zappa/Vai for me.
And the only way to get the original mix is on vinyl. Although the EMI CD contains the original vinyl mix, for some reason Moggio is still the later remix.
Stick Together Here Zappa gets serious again. Here we have Zappa in faux-reggae mode. We start with a cool little drum set up and then move slowly into the groove. This is a nice layered track, with a lot to digest, even though it is musically more simplistic than most Zappa stuff. I am guess ing that with some of the extreme things going on with unions in the entertainment biz that Zappa must have experienced one of those "no only the flower pot guy can move the flower pot" scenarios. Which of course are stupid.... but lets not get into some political turmoil. I like this song well enough. I vaguely agree with the lyric, but not totally. I like the music, but it is a lesser Zappa track in some ways, but it does serve a purpose in the flow of the album.
Sex This is a slightly unusual track, and I have always found it to be slightly odd sounding, although I have only ever had two cd versions, and never a vinyl version. The opening is like some kind of pseudo-metal type thing, but the sounds and the mix really blunt that feel and make it something else again. I reckon it's a really nice guitar riff with a nice chord at the end, I also really like the drums from Wackerman, but that's not unusual. We move into a strange pre-chorus type section, that is really high in melody, and then we cross over into the comical chorus/refrain, that has a completely different feel altogether. So this track is sort of like three somewhat traditional styles melded into one, and it works. It certainly isn't a favourite Zappa track, but it isn't a bad song to me.
I may be misremembering, but I believe the story goes that The Knack & FZ were rehearsing at the same place in the late 70's & The Knack were playing the song over & over again - it became a musical joke for FZ shortly thereafter... Also Arthur Barrow was a friend of Bruce Gary the Knacks Drummer, so perhaps that's where it all started, FZ had Arthur Barrow play the Sharona riff during "Flower Punk" on the controversial 1980's remix of the "Only Money" album.
Jazz Discharge Party Hats This song goes into lyrical territory that put a lot of fans off, from what I have read anyway ... it doesn't bother me personally. Essentially this is more of a case of Frank telling a story, to a somewhat loose jazz-like jam. Using his meltdown type of rap vocal. For me the standout is Vai's wonderful doubling of Zappa's vocal by Vai on the acoustic. I find it hard to fathom how much time it took for Vai to transcribe and arrange the guitar to do this. In spite of anything else, it is a remarkable piece of work from Vai. As for the song, I find it somewhat entertaining, but I don't love it as much as I did when I was stoner teenager lol
We Are Not Alone I absolutely love this track. This is such a great arrangement, and it never ceases to put a smile on my face. The horn arrangement, the little guitar link section, the keyboard verse? .... it all just works together so well to make such a great little instrumental. Often I think I have put this album on in the past, just to hear this track. The second verse? has Mann and Vai playing the section instead of the keyboards. Then when the next chorus section come sin with the horns and the guitar doing it's little bent string addition it just takes it to the next level. Great track.
Alcatrazz This band were put together in 1983 by Graham Bonnet, Jimmy Waldo and Gary Shea. They started off with pseudo-classical guitarist Yngwie J Malmsteen, and to some degree are a band that was seemingly discovered mainly by budding guitarists, like myself that wanted to hear who and what Malmsteen and Vai were doing. Malmsteen was another guitarist much like Vai, that was lambasted by folks for playing to technically well, too fast, and without feel. This is again a load of nonsense. Yngwie may well have played too fast too frequently, but it is a complete misrepresentation to suggest he was merely a soulless cyborg player without feel. Malmsteen was fantastic player, and actually wrote some marvelous pieces of music. He had a problem with arrogance, but that isn't unusual for musicians who are particularly talented ... I think also, he had a tendency to speak his mind and that set people on the back foot, because he was quite critical of many folks people loved. It has to be understood that he comes very music from a classical perspective, and really doesn't have much time for pentatonic styles of playing, and that clashes with the general populace.I don't tend to agree with Yngwie, but that isn't unusual. Anyhow Malmsteen left Alcatrazz after he and Bonnet had some form of altercation, and in stepped Steve Vai. This is the first thing I am aware of that Vai did with the band. I used to have this on a bootleg VHS, and really like it a lot. I don't know if it is generally available or anything, but anyhow, that was how I discovered the band. Ok so this came out on dvd as the Disturbing the Peace tour . Although the Disturbing The Peace album only came out in 1985 01. Breaking The Heart Of The City 02. Jet To Jet 03. Sky Fire 04. Sons And Lovers 05. Hiroshima Mon Amour 06. God Bless Video 07 Will You Be Home Tonight 08. Kree Nakoorie 09. Since You've Been Gone 10. Painted Lover 11. Suffer Me 12. Jack The Ripper 13. Too Young To Die, Too Drunk To Live 14. Kojo No Tsuki 15. Night Games 16. All Night Long There is some great playing from Vai on here. So I hope if you aren't familiar with it, that you get a kick out of this.
And now, for me, we get to the good stuff! I’ll save commenting on DTP for discussions on the album proper, as came to Alcatrazz from DLR & Flex-able looking for more of Steve’s playing. Confining myself to talking about the Alcatrazz w/Vai live video, it is mostly Steve covering Yngwie’s parts from the No Parole album. With Yngwie’s obvious Blackmore influence and Graham’s vocals, No Parole come across as a lost Rainbow album. I love the album as much as Disturbing the Peace, but the two are musically distinct on account of the distinctive playing and production of the two respective guitarists. And given how fast Yngwie’s playing was, Steve does an incredible job of reproducing the No Parole leads - check out the beginning of the solo from Jet to Jet around the 10:00 mark on the linked YouTube video. Inevitably a little bit of Steve’s sound creeps in, flavouring the sound a little. Safe to say that Steve does a much better job of playing Yngwie’s leads than if the two albums had been released the other way around. What I love about Steve live with Alcatrazz is that he is very much part of the band, playing what to my mind is very strong 80s rock material. For all of the showboating leads, the rest of the band are not merely there to provide a musical backdrop for the guitarist. I keep dithering over buying the Ultimate Fortress Alcatrazz box. On the plus side, videos (including a DVD copy of the live video you linked above) and bonus tracks. On the other hand the mastering has way less dynamics than my existing individuals CDs so seems a waste to rebut them. I suspect I’ll end up buying it as a result of discussions in this thread! Alcatrazz were the great also-ran of the era. On the strength of the music and playing, No Parole and DTP are up there with Whitesnake’s 1987, Leppard’s Pyro & Hysteria as the genres greats for me. Time to run the audio from the video on headphones in the office.
Yea, me too.... I had this blue thing with zips all over it. By 1985 I had become so anti-fashion just looking at me was a crime against nature .... Ugg boots, Knee length red and white striped shorts and an air force jacket with no shirt lol..... I was making a statement, but I am not sure what it really was
On Amazon there’s a DTP deluxe edition with this concert on a separate disc, with some demos etc £10.99. Bargain! the Fortress box is over £100!
Before we leave Zappa behind, there are a few Vai era tunes on the YCDTOSA series, and ‘Them or Us’ ‘Stevie’s Spanking’ gets the full treatment on Vol 4.
Yea, we'll just be doing Them Or Us... I don't really think there are any other Zappa albums that have too much relevance to this thread
Them or Us Studio album by Frank Zappa Released October 18, 1984 Recorded November 1981 - June 1984 (elements of "Ya Hozna" and "Planet Of My Dreams" were recorded between 1967 and 1976) Genre Hard rock progressive rock comedy rock doo-wop Length 70:45 Label Barking Pumpkin Producer Frank Zappa Frank Zappa – guitar, vocals Ray White – guitar, vocals Steve Vai – guitar Dweezil Zappa – guitar Tommy Mars – keyboards Bobby Martin – keyboards, saxophone, vocals, harmonica George Duke – piano, vocals Brad Cole – piano Scott Thunes – bass, Minimoog Arthur Barrow – bass Patrick O'Hearn – bass Ed Mann – percussion Chad Wackerman – drums Ike Willis – vocals Napoleon Murphy Brock – vocals Roy Estrada – vocals Johnny "Guitar" Watson – vocals Moon Unit Zappa – vocals Bob Harris – vocals Thana Harris – vocals Production staff[edit] Mark Pinske – chief engineer John Matousek – mastering Gabrielle Raumberger – artwork, graphic design Steve Schapiro – photography Bob Stone – engineer Donald Roller Wilson - Cover art 1. "The Closer You Are" (Earl Lewis, Morgan "Bobby" Robinson) 2:55 2. "In France" 3:30 3. "Ya Hozna" 6:26 4. "Sharleena" 4:33 5. "Sinister Footwear II" 8:39 6. "Truck Driver Divorce" 8:59 7. "Stevie's Spanking" 5:23 8. "Baby, Take Your Teeth Out" 1:54 9. "Marque-son's Chicken" 7:33 10. "Planet of My Dreams" 1:37 11. "Be in My Video" 3:39 12. "Them or Us" 5:23 13. "Frogs with Dirty Little Lips" (Frank Zappa, Ahmet Zappa) 2:42 14. "Whipping Post" (Gregg Allman) 7:32 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As was often the case with Zappa's post 78 albums, a lot of this is live tracks, with studio overdubs. It is an interesting and engaging way to make albums. We get a studio sound and feel, with a certain live energy. These track come from 81-84, and to em at least, have been compiled in such a way as to make a great album. We get a great Donald Roller Wilson album cover too This album is really a Jambalaya of Zappa, with little pieces of everything that he does, except for perhaps the classical leanings, ala LSO etc. We open and close with cover songs, but we'll get to that when we go through the songs. We also get another Father and child composition which I actually love All in all this is a wonderful album, and Vai graduates to get some real lead breaks, and not just a background effect guitar included. Although there are some other albums with Vai credits, this is really the last album Vai would do with Frank, and I think it leaves on a high note. Please let us know your thoughts and feelings on this album and we'll start rolling through the songs tomorrow. Cheers Mark
This was one of the first, if not THE first Zappa album I got, simply because of the Vai connection. I like the variety. Even the novelty songs work well, perhaps because they’re all so stylistically different, whereas the meltdown songs on TMFU just became dull (IMHO).
The Closer You Are Here Zappa recreates the fifties, and he does it quite beautifully. To many it would seem completely out of phase with Zappa, but he had a strong love for fifties and doo-wop, and this has a really nice sound and feel. It has a mellow intro to the album, which could trick some folks into thinking this was a return to Reuben and the Jets territory. We get some really nice vocal arrangements, and Vai doubles Bobby Martin's? high vocal. Nice intro to the album in my opinion.
