Steve Vai - Appreciation and Album thread *

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    lol probably in about twenty years :)
     
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  2. Fonz

    Fonz Forum Resident

    There is a strange irony, Devin-wise, for me. I am a massive fan. I've got pretty much everything he's done, seen him loads of times (more than any other artist FWIW), and have huge respect for him as a human being (he did a few lockdown concerts for charity, he always hangs around after show for chats with fans etc). But, apart from a couple of songs on S&R I thought he was 'too much' at the time (Though I enjoyed the Hammersmith Odeon gig for that tour-first time seeing either Steve or Dev).
    I thought (and still do...) that Rescue Me or Bury Me was by far the best thing on the album, partly because Steve's singing was respite! (But also the solo!!!).
     
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  3. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    In a similarly ironic twist, despite my not being particularly a fan, I was going to see him live this summer. :laugh:
     
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  4. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    That sums it up for me. The entire Sex & Religion period seemed totally misguided. Vai elevated his standing as a mainstream instrumentalist with Passion And Warfare, and the obvious next move would have been to follow it up with another instrumental project. I remember anxiously waiting for the follow up only to be colossally disappointed with Sex & Religion. Nothing from the album was immediately accessible and I thought Townsend's vocals were atrocious. I sold the disc very shortly after and was ready to jump off the Vai train. Fortunately he resurfaced with Alien Love Secrets in '95.
     
  5. peymei4ever

    peymei4ever Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I absolutely ADORE this album and can totally relate to your words Mark. Seems we are very in sync when it comes to Mr Vai! I went to see the band on tour and thought it was the best show I had ever seen at the time. Me and buddies sneaked in backstage with laminated fake "all area" passes I carefully made a week prior and....it worked! As daring and formidable punks as we were at the time, we were still kids and by the time we got to the dressing room, could not muster up enough courage to enter! We waited around, saw Steve leave shortly after and went to his tour bus then....just left the venue....It was fantastic. I am on the RYM site (I enjoy it for all the charts and album ratings) and this album is #1 on my list of "300+ albums to listen to before you die". That simple. I was NOT expecting P&W#2 when it was released simply because of DT and the "band" vibe it was carrying and I was floored by the intensity of the music from beginning to end, floored! What I did not expect either was that it would equal or get to be a very very close 2nd to P&W for me. I thought P&W was the best thing since sliced bread and I was just hoping it'd sound a bit like Skyscraper maybe. But that! Just shows you how top notch musicians have a knack to create so profusely and take themselves (and consequently us) to new directions. I'm very open minded when it comes to music. Duke Ellington said that "there is only 2 kinds of music: the good one and the other kind". I could not agree more. A few years later, one of the bands I was playing in covered "In my dreams with you" and it may have been my favorite song to sing ever (close to "Zomby Woof" in a Zappa tribute band!:). Anyway, I don't listen to this album often simply because I always end up feeling like a different human being 60+ minutes later after I put it on and in my line of work it's just not necessarily something that customers are looking forward to:)) I love this album and unfortunately, none of the following Vai releases would ever make such a gigantic impression on me ever again.
    As bad as I feel, felt and probably will continue feeling making this upcoming statement, I am enormously MAD that Steve went on singing himself. If you love his voice, I'm sorry about this. But I truly feel like the overall music lost in quality because of his will to sing the parts himself. I understand he can do whatever the f@#k he pleases, I am NOT arguing that point but for Pete's sake, no one will ever convince me that ANY album that has been released since then would NOT have been 1000 times better with a kick-ass singer. And to this day, I wish he'd reunite with Devin or hire someone super capable to make another seminal album. I think I stopped worshiping the man because of that. Shame on me. Or not. I took it personally. i was SO disappointed to hear the material with what I consider sub par vocal performances. It hit me hard. Probably still does....it's sad.
    Anyway, Sex and Religion is one of the most meaningful, intense and life changing albums I'll ever hear in my l;ife and I'm grateful for this.
    Peace.......
     
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  6. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I appreciate the enthusiasm, but I don't think Devin Townsend was in the league of Steve Vai (or Terry Bozzio). Yeah, it was daring and alternative, but I think the project fell flat. Even Steve Vai knew he couldn't continue in that direction if he wanted to maintain an audience and keep his record deal. And as pedestrian as Steve's vocal work is, I will listen to it 10/10 times over Devin.
     
  7. peymei4ever

    peymei4ever Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I can understand and respect that. To me the second Steve starts singing I can’t help but be frustrated and think to myself “what if”. I just can’t help it. I realize it’s silly, pointless and all but that’s the way I’m wired. That said, Devin may be an acquired taste but his intensity matched the audacity of the project then and for what it was to me was a great fit. The screaming, the delivery, yet the subtlety of his performance from one track to the other was to these ears a perfect choice.
     
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  8. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Whether folks liked the album, Devin, or anything else. The thing it did do was keep Vai's unpredictability factor high.
    Let's forget about the guest spots in bands for a moment and look at Vai releases up to this point.
    Flex-able - bizarre, with pop, instrumental music, weird music, dissonance....
    Flex-able leftovers - possibly even more weird
    Passion and Warfare - a strange concept album, with some remarkable instrumental tracks, and some interesting added bits and pieces.
    Sex and Religion - a full on alternative rock/metal/pop album, with the most diverse vocalist Vai had worked with up to that point. A vocalist as diverse as Vai is a guitarist.
    Perhaps it doesn't work for everyone, but it certainly wasn't boring or predictable
     
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  9. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Fantastic! :D Great little story.
     
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  10. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    It's not. We like what we like.

    I don't share your sentiments in this case, but I can understand what you say and relate. I too have other artists who, as much as I may love them as they are, they can be frustrating sometimes when you're left feeling "if only...!"
     
  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    An Earth Dwellers Return

    With the opening here, one would and can imagine that this may well be the continuation on from where Passion and Warfare left off.
    We have some sound effects, glass breaking and such and then we get a solid sounding guitar, with some layers, with a wall of white sound around it.

     
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  12. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Here and Now
    To a degree this starts off as if it could be some sort of progression on from the work Steve did with Billy Sheehan in Roth's band.
    We punch in with a kind of alt, power metal thing. We get the staccato opening leading into some very cool lead runs, then a kind of funky edge comes in, and we burst into the song.
    Townsend's vocal comes in very solid at a pitch that doesn't shock the listener too much.
    One interesting thing here that I notice listening back.... Steve has mixed and recorded the vocal like he does his guitars. He has put layers of vocals on top of each other interacting, in a similar manner to the way Steve does with his guitars. Perhaps on some level that left some listeners thinking there was some level of artificiality about the vocals.
    Again to some degree we get a vocal, that although very distinctively Townsend's, it is operating in a similar area that Mike Patton from Faith No More had been.
    Even with the layers the vocal is quite sensational.
    The song itself, is really a very accessible uptempo hard rock - metal type track, that has a very melodic pop type structure that in reality shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to digest.
    From this very first song I was intrigued by this album. We have Stevens popping and pumping on the bass. I was very aware of Bozzio from my many Zappa records. I liked the diversity that the vocalist showed, and he had a good timbre to his voice, we weren't into that falsetto glam metal type vocal that annoyed me quite a bit...... and well Steve is Steve, he was playing up a storm

    Great opening

     
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  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Some snippets from Vai on Letterman 1990

     
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  14. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Headbangers ball interview 1993

     
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  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    In My Dreams With You
    So this song is written by Desmond Child and Roger Greenawalt. Desmond of course has had a big impact through his writing, and wrote a lot of Kiss's eighties hits with Paul Stanley. Here he has written a reasonably pop song, that in many ways it is surprising wasn't at least a minor hit for the band. It has all the hooky writing, and melodic phrasing, and was really pretty well set up to give the band a pretty decent introduction to the record buying public.
    Townsend delivers a solid, dynamic vocal. The band arrangement is tight and interesting enough to keep most people's attention. Perhaps the song was a little long for the mainstream. We get a short sharp blast of Vai's guitar, but for the most part this is the somewhat pop single from the album.


     
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  16. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Still My Bleeding Heart
    We get a nice slow atmospheric build, with some nice ringing chords. Again Devin lays down a nice vocal. The melodic arrangement works very well, and the song really shows that Vai himself was very capable of writing a song that had possibilities of being a chart threatening single. Sadly I guess it wasn't to be.
    To me this is an excellent song that given the right push, and the right timing could easily have been a hit single..... but then again, Vai does tend to write a little to distinctively for a straight pop audience...
    We get an excellent breakdown in the middle with a nice trimmed back track and Vai's guitar coming clean, and to the forefront, and it is an excellent interlude, and we move back into the song.
    To some degree I think the guys were having too much fun in the studio. Even though I actually really like the outro with Devin's ad lib vocal fade out. I think Vai may have enjoyed Devin's vocal too much (for pop audiences at least) and the drum and vocal highlight ending may be more than your average punter could handle.
    Excellent vocal, and Devin would go on to refine his remarkable pipes over his solo and DTP years.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2020
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  17. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    This is one of the songs I love on the album. One of those that is very Vai, very uplifting, with that stretch-out-your-arms-and-fill-your-lungs-with-fresh-mountain-air kind of feel. There's something beautiful about so much of Vai's music, and this is another good example. My favourite part has to be right after the solo when he gets into some rapid-fire melodic runs, that's a highlight of this track. Good stuff!
     
  18. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    And if I said I love Here & Now, I must say that I adore In My Dreams With You. It's the way it moves towards the chorus: slow-burn verse... elevating bridge... open-floodgates chorus. It's so well done, each part building on the one that came before, and the chorus is just soooo satisfying - I find that melody totally irresistible, it's so beautiful, and the bridge sets it up so well. And hell, I like the lyrics a whole lot too.

    If I had to find fault with it, I'd say that Devin's yahyahyahyahyahyah screams towards the end feel out of place to me (there's other songs that offer better, more suitable opportunities for that kind of screaming); and maybe the ending is a bit overcooked with so much stuff blaring all at once (the artificial sound of the synth-brass doesn't help either) whereas the earlier choruses sounded heavenly in comparison. But overall it's one I'm very fond of and I love it.

    It isn't right what I do in my dreams with you.
     
  19. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I reckon to some degree the flaw in the album for most, is the seeming need to overlayer, and overcomplicate

    I don't mind it, but on occasion it does somewhat interfere with a great song
     
  20. Fonz

    Fonz Forum Resident

    I really like the first 4 tracks, as above. I'd say they were the most commercial. It's funny, but Anthrax's take down of the 'yayhayas' is bang-on. It's taken me 27 years to realise exactly what has irritated me about that song!

    Dev did find 'subtle', what, 20 years later...!
     
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  21. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    On Casualties of Cool? Maybe :)
     
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  22. Duol

    Duol Hopeless Throwback

    Location:
    London
    I think it's a fascinating album. I like a lot about it (and really liked it when it first came out) but if I had to use a slightly pretentious culinary analogy (I absolutely don't have to, but I'm going to anyway)....

    it's kind of like throwing a ton of random spices into a pot and hoping for the best. Could work, but the chances are not...

    the hyper funk bass player, prone to throwing in chops-happy slappery where you might not expect it
    the fusion drummer lowering himself to play hard rock, but throwing in twists and turns along the way
    the screaming manchild, brought in to deliberately be the antidote to the preening Plant/Tyler clones of the hour

    and the main man, desperately trying to prove that he wasn't just "the Whitesnake/David Lee Roth hired gun guy" in an increasingly hostile musical environment.

    So. Good bits.

    "Here and Now" is a great opener, very high energy, some very clever guitar playing. For any guitar nerds who've tried to cop Vai, one of the first things you'll notice is some of the complicated stuff in the background, which doesn't "sound" complicated or widdly, but is a real pain in the **** to play. Not that "complicated" necessarily means "good", but you have to appreciate the easter eggs sometimes...

    "Still My Bleeding Heart" is just a great song. Very memorable chorus, a super-restrained solo (by Vai standards) and a bizarre Pat Metheny-style bridge section. What's going on? No idea, but I like it.

    "Touching Tongues" - just a very creative piece, again you may have to be a guitar nerd to appreciate all the levels that are happening here, but it's an instrumental with composition at its heart rather than guitar posing. This is a good thing.

    "Survive" - it's a great groove, pure and simple. TM Stevens allowed to come into his own, I guess.
     
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  23. Fonz

    Fonz Forum Resident

    Yes, and Ghost and Ki and Ziltoid
     
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  24. peymei4ever

    peymei4ever Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Well put Anthrax!!! I remember being so NOT into Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and sorts at the time and despite seeing the writing on the wall, was adamant to throw this particular track into any "cool" kid's ears that thought Vai was passé or just some shredder from the 80's (ughhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!). Had a band for a short time called Arcana and we were playing this song on our setlist (next to Toto's "Hydra"! I kid you not:) and as the "possessed" lead singer with hair down my ankles I simply BECAME that song every time we'd perform it. It was disturbing. Still is to me now how much I was into it! Those lyrics man! When you're full of testosterones, this band to me came at the very right time as a next step to the more frivolous DLR stuff I had worshipped at the time and without the doom/gloom the pre cited bands were seemingly carrying to my peers's awe. I could not understand what "grunge" meant either. They all sounded like hard-rock bands to me and I could not understand what was so special about any of them. But this! Yeah, that's extra terrestrial and special alright. And Devin live man! Speak of insane?!!?!?!? I thought I perhaps needed a shrink sometimes but I felt like applying to a stamp collecting clerk job after seeing him in the flesh. And boy could he sing too! Anyway, "In my dreams with you" is still a fave of mine to this day.
     
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  25. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Sex And Religion
    Well for some reason I can't find this one track on youtube, if someone else can or does, please post is for anyone wandering through the thread.

    This track moves back into the more 90's metal feel of Here and Now territory. We get the aggressive verse structures, with more of Townsend's extreme vocals. This then moves into a more mellow sort of chorus ... and I should probably study the lyrics properly at some point, as they come across unusually from a perspective of just listening to the song from a music perspective.

    It ends up being a sort of contemplation about sin and righteousness and how confusing it actually is to the human form. It also has a healthy dose of criticism for the money changers that pose as evangelists, preying rather than praying.
     
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