Steve's Analogue Productions Blue Note SACD/CD Sound Quality Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jpm-boston, Jan 17, 2009.

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  1. jpm-boston

    jpm-boston Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I figured I would start this thread since the other one was getting too large and mostly focused upon the announcement of the series and when the Blue Note SACD/CDs were getting released.

    I just received all of the first 4, and the Coltrane Blue Trane is unbelievable (SACD layer). It is by far the best digital version that I have ever heard. I have the 45rpm version also by Steve, but I have not yet compared them.

    Anyone who is still on the fence about these releases, buy them!
     
    Ted Garry likes this.
  2. rhkwon

    rhkwon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX USA
    JPM, please let us know when you're able to compare the vinyl vs. SACD! I've only been able to listen to the regular (not SACD) layer but even that sounds really good.
     
  3. JMCIII

    JMCIII Music lover first, audiophile second.

    jpm-boston,

    Do you have the Blue Note issued SACD of Blue Train too? Since it will be a while before I receive my copy of the AS issue I'd be interested in hearing about the AS SACD, the Blue Note SACD, and the AS 45 LP comparisons.

    Thanks in adavance,
     
  4. jpm-boston

    jpm-boston Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I don't have the old SACD.

    I compared the 45 LP and the new SACD and the 45 sounded better to me. More open and more dynamic. I listened to both on a NAD M3 integrated. For the SACD I used the NAD M3 SACD player and for the 45 I used a Rega P-3 (Clearaudio Aurum Beta Wood cartridge) through a VTL tube phono preamp. Maybe the tubes account for the more open sound. Either way both were awesome.
     
  5. Beatlelennon65

    Beatlelennon65 Active Member

    I've got the Trane sacd, I am listening to the the cd right now. I haven't listened to the sacd layer yet because I am always confused as to which will sound better, the cd layer played back on a good cd player or the sacd layer played back on an Oppo.

    I have to say I am a little disappointed in the liner notes, I was expecting new liner notes in addition to the original ones.
     
  6. michaelO

    michaelO Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Hi.

    Recieved all four Thurs. So far have listened to Blue Trane and Capuchin Swing. Both sound warm, detailed and open. One point that has not been mentioned so far is that these SACDs have been transfered at a lower level than usual. I mostly listed to music with the volume at about 10:30. With these SACDs I need to turn the volume up to 1:00-1:30. Not a big deal or anything, but thought I would mention it.
    I would agree that the AP SACD of BT beats out the HDAD by some margin. There is more ambiance and texture to the instruments. I wonder if Classic was using the master tapes or some dup? It almost goes without saying the SACD of CS kicks the RVG's digital butt!!

    Michael
     
  7. DVDRowe

    DVDRowe Forum Resident

    I have the Blue Note issued SACD and this new one from Steve, and have listened to the SACD layers on each for the track "Blue Train." VERY different mixes. VanGelder/Cuscuna (I suspect) remixed tracks to give them a more center, modern stereo mix, whereas SH seems to have gone with the original horns left/rhythm section right mix (think early Beatles). I'm inclined to keep both and live with 'em for awhile.

    I agree that the transfer is at a lower level.

    I listened the red book cd of Leeway vs the new SH SACD, and the improvement is marked!
     
  8. therockman

    therockman Senior Member In Memoriam

    I have listened to all of these discs, the SACD layer. This is all new music to me except Blue Train. I love the sound quality of these discs but I have yet to compare the new Blue Train to the MFSL gold CD and the HDAD 24/192 high rez disc. I will be doing this soon.
     
  9. Paul K

    Paul K Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Perhaps the talk of "lower volume" is because of the full dynamic range that is being captured on these discs?

    That would be my guess...
     
  10. Ragu

    Ragu Forum Resident

    Location:
    LA
    I'd be interested in your comparision. I have the MFSL and HDAD but not the new SACD.
     
  11. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Senior Member

    Just to be clear, the only "mix' that ever existed was the one that Rudy captured direct live to two track analog. In the case of the very early stereo recordings from 1957, Rudy ran both a stereo master and a mono master. From early in 1958 on, Rudy ran only a single stereo master.

    What you are hearing on the modern Van Gelder CD's is that RVG takes the stereo master and then runs it through another fold down to make the original stereo mix a bit more like mono. Personally I don't care for this since it means you are running the stereo signal through the board again. I also prefer the added sense of presence and air that exist on the original stereo masters. To my ears, these sound more like a live band in front of me.

    Having said that though, there ARE some very early RVG stereo masters where he didn't really have his stereo technique down. On these he tends to put all the horns on one side, nothing in the middle and drums,bass and piano rightish. The hole in the middle bothers me on those few tapes and I generally prefer the mono as a result.

    cheers,

    Joe
     
  12. DVDRowe

    DVDRowe Forum Resident

    Joe-

    Very helpful.

    I did not mean, by the way, that RVG was taking a mono master and making it Stereo - my referencing the Beatles may have made it seem so.

    Blue Train does have the "hole in the middle" and it does have the effect - especially with headphones - of making it sound less like a live band.

    Thanks, Joe.

    David
     
  13. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Senior Member

    I agree. I prefer Blue Train in mono for this reason.
     
  14. Plinko

    Plinko Senior Member

    I would be interesting in hearing how the redbook layers of these cds sound. It's mastered by SH, so I assume this layer sounds excellent as well. I have not invested in a capable SACD player but am interested in these SACDs.
     
  15. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    The DSD layer is definitely something special but the redbook layer sounds wonderful.
     
  16. TSmithPage

    TSmithPage Ex Post Facto Member

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    I got these 4 and also the 3 Art Pepper Analogue Productions SACDs at the same time. Along with the LP of Nat King Cole's Penthouse Serenade I also just received, I'm drowning in Steve-mastered product at the moment and haven't had time to play any yet.

    To digress briefly, are there any other AP SH-mastered SACDs (other than the CCRs) out there I haven't just mentioned? The SH discography (which doesn't yet list the Blue Note releases) doesn't identify any others but with all the new SH product out there, I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed any.
     
  17. Jamison1955

    Jamison1955 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    I signed up for the Blue Note SACD subscription back in November and I haven't received my first shipment. Anyone else not received their order yet?
     
  18. TSmithPage

    TSmithPage Ex Post Facto Member

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    yup, signed up about a week ago and got the 1st 4 with the collectors box yesterday.
     
  19. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    I do - very disappointing SACD in my opinion. I don't yet have the AP SACD but I do have the 45 rpm vinyl and it is incredible, just smokes the Blue Note SACD. So I'm betting the AP SACD is gonna be sweet.

    As Joe Harley says many of the RVG-mastered Blue Note CDs have the stereo field folded in, almost to mono, which I personally hate. And also to me the Blue Note SACD sounds otherwise futzed with - don't care for the equalization and it sounds compressed too (not as hard as a lot of modern pop discs but some).

    I eagerly await the new AP SACD, all the first 4 are on the way to me now according to the good folks at Acoustic Sounds.
     
  20. TommyTunes

    TommyTunes Senior Member

    Listening to the SACD of Capuchin Swing, I thought that something was wrong with my system everything was on the right channel until the horn comes in on the left. This is one of those where a mono button is mandatory. While I think that these first 4 SACD’s are great. This is a series where the benefits of vinyl really shine. I only wished that APO used the same packaging as the MM series. Those are a standard that would be impossible to top.

    RVG definitely did not use any standards from session to session. Regardless of his sometime dual mono approach, he thankfully left the music alone and always captured it the music naturally. Maybe we are fortunate that much of the technology that exists now was unavailable then.
     
  21. TOCJ-4091

    TOCJ-4091 Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Mine w/box should arrive today. I sure hope that the box is not as shoddy as was the LP box. It was major league sub-standard imo. :thumbsdn:
     
  22. JMCIII

    JMCIII Music lover first, audiophile second.

    My first three arrived today (just as I'm getting ready for work darn it all). Blue Train (so I can compare the AS SACD with the Blue Note SACD and AS 45 LP), Capuchin Swing, and Lee-way. Can't wait to give them a listen.
     
  23. Mike Dow

    Mike Dow I kind of like the music

    Location:
    Bangor, Maine
    Blue Train arrived this week and I'm finally able to sit down now and listen. I am amazed at how great this SACD sounds. This is my fourth version/mastering of Blue Train. I knew it was going to be good (how could it not be, right? Steve and Kevin, Analogue Productions, etc) but this surpasses my expectations. It's so rich, smooth and dynamic. Amazing sound.

    Listening again now. I've always liked the cello-like quality of Paul Chambers' bowed bass on "Moment's Notice" and "Lazy Bird." On this SACD, it really sounds like a cello. The guy was unbelievable.

    I should know the answer to these questions. Did Rudy Van Gelder add the reverb live or during mixing? Also, when was the first stereo issue of this album?
     
  24. Jamie Tate

    Jamie Tate New Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    This is not a definitive answer, I'm sure Joe or Steve will jump in here, but Rudy printed the two track mix live. There wasn't any mixing afterwards because there wasn't anything to mix. Everything was done live. Pretty amazing, eh?
     
  25. Mike Dow

    Mike Dow I kind of like the music

    Location:
    Bangor, Maine
    The stereo mix was printed live? That really is amazing.
    Was the mono master recorded live at the same time or did that come later?
     
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