Steve's Steely Dan Aja

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Dave, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    Hell, I'll throw in the entire remastered Who catalog! :laugh:

    Evan
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    freb, Keith, and Evan, you'll notice just how fast Steve is jumping in here with these above the board, waaaaaay above the board offers. :p :laugh:
     
  3. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    :laugh:

    Boy, I really wish SOMEONE could jump in and tell us, definitively, what to look for to tell what Steve's version looks like!(hint hint, SH, hint hint!)

    Evan :righton:
     
  4. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    Unfortunately, things don't work that way...at least for me they don't. Disregarding CDs that have pre-emphasis, I've yet to make a CD-R that is audibly different from the source.

    I find that article fascinating not because I think jitter is the main culprit, but because it shows that even professionals get stumped by some of the weird detours of digital audio.

    I don't think that Roger himself clearly understands what is happening. IMO, jitter doesn't completely explain some of the differences that I'm hearing...but I'm convinced that the CD manufacturing process can affect tonality.
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    Dob, I agree 100% here. Jitter just doesn't explain what I'm hearing between the Japanese (supposedly Nichols) and the USA Nichols. There are actually mastering or source differences IMO.

    What ripping/burning program are you using, as I've yet to hear an exact duplicate program?
     
  6. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    I'm not sure what you mean by "exact duplicate"...but I use EAC, Nero, and NTC CD Maker - with identical results, from what I can hear.

    Some people hear differences between burning programs, CD-R blanks, ripping speeds, etc. etc. I'm not one of those people.
     
  7. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    Hmm, interesting. On my set up there are differences with EAC and the original. I haven't tried Nero or NTC CDM though.
     
  8. quick cheap jitter fixes

    Burning a cd-r usually does correct this problem, burning a 2nd cd-r off the 1st cd-r, and/or using a black disc as the final all contribute to better playback.

    The $10k comment is this in a nutshell: any jitter-free cd player, especially one with a skip-protection buffer, or one that either upsamples or re-clocks the data before decoding, all will have positive effect on playback. You can make a jittery-but-otherwise acceptably mastered cd sound amazing, if you just fiddle with it a little. I play my cd's on several players, some nicer than others, so I burn them all to cd-r (black) and never play the store bought copy again. It's quick and simple, and I get more consistent results moving the disc from the home SACD player to the big car, to the other little car, to the el-cheapo CD walkman, and to the boom box.
     
  9. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....


    The search for Steve"s lost AjA and the revealing CD details remain lost,... no one yet has came up with the definitive cd version of that Hoffman magic disc !!! The search for the lost Steely continues.....:confused:
     
  10. peterC

    peterC Aussie Addict

    Location:
    sydney
    Has it occurred to anyone that Kevin might be getting in early for April Fools Day?!
     
  11. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Video Gort / Paiute Warrior Staff

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    peterC:

    Naw-- I'm afraid my conscience wouldn't allow me to get away with misleading folks about things like that. Particularly since I'd like to avoid having someone pay even more than **I** did!

    Besides, the Gort Code of Conduct begins the same way as it does in the medical and hair-care professions: "First, do no harm." :)

    -Kevin
     
  12. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Wow! I go away for the weekend and we've got a real "topic" brewing here!

    FWIW, I have a CD-R of the (J) Sony pressed version, and an original JVC (J) smooth-sided case version. They sound identical to me.

    I'm gonna be content, as no one here can produce a different version than noted above, and hearing the MFSL CD version, I'm sure that these Japan-made discs are my preference for a digital version.
     
  13. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What it be a safe bet assuming the SH-Lost AjA can not be found that a made in Japan cd is the now defintive one to get?


    Other version possibilities.....

    How is the made in West Germany cd version ?

    Or perhaps a MOFI, (sorry, just trying to get the best available source!) ?


    To quote The Who "They call me the Seeker - searching low and highhhhhhh...!" :agree:
     
  14. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™ Thread Starter

    Location:
    B.C.
    Yes, and the one I spoke of in the first post is the best I've heard. Yes, even better than the MFSL UD1.
     
  15. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....


    Thanks Dave ! :righton:
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I have never seen or heard of a West German pressing of Aja. MCA pressed most of its discs in Japan in 1984 and '85. A few titles here and there were pressed in West Germany, but I'm quite certain that Aja wasn't one of them. In fact, the only MCA Steely Dan disc I've seen as a West German pressing is A Decade of Steely Dan.

    Regarding MFSL, I have the UDI version, and it's not as good overall as the Japanese pressings. The MFSL disc has good separation and a wide soundstage, but the EQ was tweaked. It sounds sharp, meaning that the piano sounds a thin or pinched, and Fagen's vocals sound more raspy than they should (there's a natural raspiness to his vocals, but it is accentuated here).
     
  17. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    All my Steely Dan CDs are West German MCA pressings from the 1980s. Including Katy Lied and Aja.
     
  18. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    O.K., thanks. Perhaps MCA pressed discs in West Germany for release in Europe and Japan for release in the US. I'm surprised that the West German pressings don't come up on eBay (ebay.com or ebay.de).

    Could you please post the track times and total times for your West German copies of Aja and Katy Lied?
     
  19. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    The search continues, the facts still uncertain .....AJa will that SH-version/ lost masterpiece be found ?
     
  20. Gardo

    Gardo Audio Epistemologist

    Location:
    Virginia
    I've got a copy of the Made In Japan/JVC disc of Aja, and I agree with Dave: it's better than the MFSL, better than the MFSL LP (way too bright IMO), better than the recent remaster.
     
  21. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Perhaps the answer lies in the West German pressing!
     
  22. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Sorry I do not have it. Would be great to confirm if I did !
     
  23. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    I'll second that, Dave. I just listened to it last night, and it is SO killer sounding! It sounds like a Hoffman mastering to me. Can't believe that this isn't the real deal.

    Evan
     
  24. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    AJa

    Until I hear the WG version Dave & Evans choice seems to be the one !!!

    regards,

    alex
     
  25. Dob

    Dob New Member

    Location:
    Detroit
    I should point out right up front that I've heard only the UD2, but your comments apply, IMO, to the UD2 as well. And, for the most part, I would agree.

    The flip side is that the extra treble does give extra space and air...the Nichols is "closed in" sounding by comparison. The problem is it's hard to appreciate (or even hear) that, because we are instantly turned off by hearing the bad things that the treble boost brings along. Also, some tracks are worse than others... the UD2 "Aja" will blister your ears, whereas "Black Cow" ain't so bad.

    In the course of remastering this album for myself, I've listened very, very, closely to both the Nichols and the UD2, - headphones, speakers, loud and soft. My initial impressions were that the Nichols was less "futzed" with, so I used that as a source and attempted to give it that UD2 "air" without overdoing the treble boost. I couldn't do it. Even when I overdid the treble boost, it still didn't have the open soundstage of the UD2. Plus, I started to notice anomalies in the upper midrange/lower treble, which seemed thicker and "busier" on the Nichols. Perhaps this is the "hole" that SH described...and I (of course) tried the EQ that SH suggested. Couldn't get it to work.

    Plan B was to use the UD2 as a source and cut the treble, and I had much better results. After basically remastering the entire Nichols version AND the entire UD2 version, and picking the best sounding tracks, I ended up with the UD2 versions for all but 2 - "Aja" (used the Nichols), and "Deacon Blues", for which I used the "Citizen" box version (also too bright, but was easier to fix than the UD2).

    My point is that there's a lot of ranting on this board about MFSL and their "smiley" EQ curve, but I can understand what they were trying to do in some cases. It's all a compromise...MFSL felt that the flat transfer/master tape needed some EQ work (and so did SH)...and many of us agree they went a bit too far. But, because I found it easier to fix their version, I have to say that I find it the superior version. And I have respect for MFSL, because I had the supposed flat transfer (Nichols) to work with, and I couldn't get that "air" in it like they did.
     

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