Stooges - Raw Power: Legacy Edition w/ Original Mix!*

The UK press is just the same mixes for 7 songs save S&D, only mastered right like a professional album would be. (On first listening, the difference is so huge it sounds like a different mix, but as fans on the stooges forum said, it's not). After giving it many listens, I agree with them.

Somehow S&D is a different mix. It might be that it's either Bowie mix of the song, or Iggy one. As we all know, Iggy asked for his mix to be used, but at this point, it's a mystery if it's the one on the US first press, or the UK first press. That can explain why the two version differ. One is probably Iggy one, and the other Bowie one (as it's fairly documented that Bowie also mixed it, but that eventually Iggy asked for his own mix to be used).

I think the mix on the UK press sound very much like the other tracks, So I'm guessing it might be Bowie's own mix of S&D.

 

I'm also (still guessing) that if the US press all sound like the version of S&D, and the UK press all sound like it's own version of S&D, one is the version of the LP Iggy lobbyed for under the influence of stuff (complete with no bottom, no drums and no bass, just crank up the mids and treble YEAH ! I want the guitar to HURT !), and the other is Bowie more sensible mix. Of course, it's just a guess. But guessing is part of the fun.

I do prefer the UK one not just because It's the first I came across, right there in Kantes bedroom in the mid 70's, but also because it sounds complete and **** kicking, whereas the other sound like someone just want you to hear the guitars and the vocals.

That forgotten boy moment a few seconds in where the guitar almost disappear and all you hear is the rythm section, you have to admit, is kicking ! You can hear they rythm section is perfectly recorded.

 

I think the orignal engineer for the album was a guy called Joe Neil (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:fiftxq8gldhe~T4).

Has nobody bothered to interview him on this topic all these years?

 

IMO, that is just absolutely crazy talk. Funhouse is a very detailed, dynamic, dry rock mix with good punch. Raw Power is none of that, and the Iggy mix is all mud.

 

Thanks for that. I've just listened to the samples and comparing them to the 4 (yes, I know!) vinyl issues of Raw Power that I own, the first 40 secs of the 'US' mix are the same mix as:

1. Sundazed (which sounds too thin on Search & Destroy but fine on the rest of the album)
2. Sony Columbia US reissue, Rob Loverde mastered (which sounds close to your sample, with some bass - not too bad really)
3. CBS made in Holland 1970s reissue, 65586 (EQ has been used to thicken the sound - it has the heaviest 'rumbling' bass - still sounds good but not as 'clean' as the two above)

The next 40 secs have the same mix as my UK Embassy issue, CBS S-31464-A1. You can clearly tell by that strange echo on the snare drum. Rest of the album is the same mix as all the above but it does have an eq which brings out the lower frequencies in a similar way to the CBS Holland version.

If I was going to bet who did the 'UK' mix, I would say Bowie, it's unusual and I think it's something he might have tried, and Iggy could have preferred the straighter (although AM sounding) earlier version. If the 'UK' mix is Bowie's then it's hardly more sensible - just odd in a different way to Iggy's.

I wouldn't say I prefer that alternative Search & Destroy mix with the echo although it does have its merits - like the crazy way those drums pile in after the quieter guitar bit. I think I would go for the CBS Holland issue with 'US' mix and beefed up eq.

Another 2LP vinyl version is due out soon, containing the 1973 and 1997 mixes. I might be even crazy enough to buy it.

 

A muddy mix is one in which you cannot differentiate different instruments and vocal parts. That's sounds like the non-remix/Bowie version to me, where you can't pick out the drumming or bass playing. Just a muddy thump...

 

Hi Scott1234,

So you're saying one Embassy press does hold this version of the record, and that is UK Embassy issue, CBS S-31464-A1 ? That's great news that makes for two pressings with this alternate mix / master.

That would be cool if you could scan or photographs the labels and sleeve and post the inner groove matrixes ref. on this thread.

I agree with your assessment about the UK alt. version being Bowie's own mix of S&D, by sensible, I mean Bowie balanced all the instruments on his mix. Iggy just pushed the guitar and vocals way out in your face. (I still like his own mix thought because it's different, but I qualify it as a "bonus" mix).

Just to be more precise re previous comments, my feeling is that on the US press, Iggy choose his own mix of S&D, and probably asked for an EQ on the other 7 songs to bring them close to his mix of S&D.

The UK "alternate" sound like someone just EQed the 7 other tracks to sound like the alt. S&D.

I think the Legacy CD probably hit the middle ground in the mastering (ie S&D still sounds AM, while the rest is balanced, without going full on with the bottom like the UK pressing does)

 

Wow, that is an interesting mix on the UK. Legend has it the bass and drums are mixed together, preventing a reasonable remix. What it sounds like is the UK mix added a lot of bass eq, tamed the presence range (which is searing on the US), and added a ton of echo to the treble.

Though I am intrigued, I have to say it sounds rather bizarre and it also sounds to me that some judicious eq on the two-tracks we all own--and no bizarre echo--could create a more satisfying version.

 

Yes, and the deadwax matrix numbers are as above: CBS S-31464-A1 (hand etched, with B1 on the other side). As for scans, I'm reposting the scan you used in post #183 of this thread. My label looks exactly like this one:



Sorry, but I can't post a scan of the outer sleeve. I got it in a really cheap deal. Paid £1 for it on ebay but it didn't have a sleeve.

The Legacy CD is good, but I think they did a poor job with the so-called Embassy reels. The only discernible alternative mix is 'Search and Destroy' and they left that out, but put two other 'Embassy' tracks with identical mixes on it!

 

There are a lot of things I don't like about the portion of the "Embassy" mix in this sample. The hard-panned delays on the lead guitar riff and the massive echo/reverb on the rhythm guitar leave this mix sounding pretty hollow, even though the drums and bass have a little more life to them. Hearing the two back-to-back like this probably overemphasizes those features, and I am listening on headphones. I'll have to track down an original UK pressing to make a fairer judgment, but I'm at least a little reassured that the mix I'm familiar with has plenty of strengths.

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting!

 

Yes, keep in my S&D is the only fully different mix, the rest is different EQ. I assume you also need to hear the full song, as hearing it that way for the first time when used to the other mix can be unsettling (especially only a snippet of it).

Scott thanks, it seems some copies with this same label exist but with the regular (ie US) mix / mastering.

 

Wow...this thread has actually made my head hurt.

So...at the very least, the Legacy CD1 is a well mastered version of the original US LP (with it's flaws intact as well) with the Iggy approved S&D?

 

Having the drums and bass mixed together, while not the ideal, would hardly prevent a good remix, let alone a "reasonable" one...

 

I'm with you on Funhouse but I regard the Bowie mix as the muddy one with the 1997 Iggy remix much drier and distinct. The Bowie mix somehow manages to be both muddy and screechy. Some tracks fare better than others though.

That gets mentioned a lot but can't be the case since there is seperation of the bass and drum tracks. The outtakes on the box offer proof that the album really wasn't that bad of a recording at all.

I'm Sick Of You dates from earlier, unrelated sessions at a different studio.

 

Keith Harwood was the engineer! All that tripe about it being recorded on three tracks and all...

 

You know, bounces were done often for the final mix in analog. I remember Bill Price having trouble with a Guns & Roses tracks, and he solved it by mixing the instrumental.
Then he added the voice over the two track intrumental, making his mix. In essence, he worked out of three tracks for the final mix.

I wouldn't be surprised this legend come from either Iggy or someone else having done an instrumental bounce, and then adding the voice and lead guitar on top of it. Probably Bowie, or whomever, gave it a listen, and realise this one mix was from three tracks and that is all. Then it was repeated, and the legend started that RP was recorded this way...

 

I have that too. Correct.

 

seventeen, you're certifiable. That's ok, so am I.

 

So other than the 2nd disk, there is no reason for me to buy this release or does the mastering make the mix sound better?

 

In my opinion, the mastering makes it sound more like the LP. Of course for ultimate sound, I prefer the LP.

 

Oooh! I have one of these at home, will have to a have a look/listen tonight when I get home. Never realized it was (potentially) a variant pressing. Thanks for the info!

 

You're right. I take that back. It might have been as well recorded as 'Funhouse', but we have yet to hear that (on the album proper, anyway). It's not just the mastering, or even the volume, that's problematic with the '97 Iggy remix. He crushed the dynamics out of it for some deranged reason.

I've measured the dynamic range of "Gimme Danger" at just 3 db!

 

I wasn't comparing the two Raw Power mixes. IMO on an absolute basis Funhouse is an excellent rock recording and Raw Power (as we have heard it thus far) is bad in every version (which for me is all three cds, an original LP, a mid-80s copy, and Rob LoVerde's version, but not the Sundazed). It's just a measure of how bad and what specific form of bad.

I would LOVE to hear even a decent mix! It's hard to believe the tracking was done less than competently.

 

I concur. However, the new cd is very good, imo.

 

No dice on my Embassy copy. It has S-31464-A1 and S-31464-B1 matrices BUT on both sides the 1 has been lightly scratched out and there is a 2 next to it (hand etched on Side 1, machine stamped on side 2).