Stopping a bad listening habit

I recently realized my favorite listening experience is in the car, cranking a dolby C tape with the dolby off.

The car stereo is OEM Mazda. No dolby C. My previous car had a good tape deck with dolby C, but not this car.

So I'm unnaturally accentuating the highs. I'm thinking I've got to stop listening to those tapes, and make some CDR's with no NR to re-educate my ear on the high end.

Also, I like the car's sense of sound stage. Maybe because I'm right "in" the sound.

 

I had a habit similar to that awhile back. Seek out any Hoffman remastered CD's for proper treatment and kick the habit.

 

Dan,

Don't be hard on yourself about the boosted high frequency from the Dolby C tapes. It may be actually helping cut through normal car environment noise...

Todd

 

Remember - DETOX not Re-tox from NR. Most cars are natually kinder to high frequencies, so that top end's gonna create a migrane. Toss the player out of the window and get some nice car gear! Chances are, your OEM Mazda speakers might need some upgrading.

1st thing I do to a new car: OEM stereo - OUT! OUT! YOU GO NOW!

 

Right now, my Toyota tacoma cd player his took a dump. Its only ayear old, so its still under warranty. Have to take it in and service dept. has to verify before they will order me a new one!

 

Yeah, but the unnatural compression and awful treble boost...UGGHHH!!!

I gave up on Dolby "C" and went back to "B" because it was so bad! But, when "S" came out, I found it to be quite acceptable in "B" mode. It's close to digital, or at least a very goot reel-to-reel.

 

Grant, I agree with you about Dolby C(rap), yuck. I think Dolby S was designed to kind of work with B playback. I gave up on NR schemes several years ago. Actually, I think the last time I used a cassette was almost 2 years ago...

Todd

 

Yeah, my cassette deck has sat in my bedroom on a rack unhooked since I got my CD recorder. I think I might have hooked it up twice to burn a couple of live tapes to CD! I also have a walkman Pro which I use once in a while. I haven't checked lately to see whether or not there are still good blank cassettes available?

 

I havent recorded a tape in almost four years! The only reason I use tape decks anymore is to transfer a cassette to the PC for editing and burning to CD-R, or listening to in the car.

 

Dolby noise reduction does not raise the high end but compresses the high end. But only low level high frequencies. Dolby C is more effective than B and less sensitive to level misadjustments. Dolby S also manages the low end noise and sounds better when played back uncompressed than C does. You are actually getting what you need in the car, an increase in the intensity of low level high frequencies otherwise masked my car noise. High level high frequencies are not impacted by Dolby noise reduction. Dolby C recordings plays back more accurately with Dolby B turned on in the car and you still "enjoy" a level of high frequency compression.

 

No, you have that wrong. Dolby "C" incorporated a high frequency boost upon recording in addition to the action of the comprassion. The problem there is that unless the playback deck had the exact compander properties, there were playback errors. This also made listening to the Dolby "C" tape in "B" mode worse. "C" is MORE sensitive to level misadjustments. I know, I fooled with more tape decks than you can imagine!

Those of us who are sensitive to levels and compression no matter what the noise climate will not accept improper Dolby playback at all. Thgis issue is why some people dispense with Dolby altogether.

 

Dolby Lab's theology was to never boot the high frequency level for high frequency information because that would result in tape head saturation. There were no basic eq changes with Dolby B, C or S.

Dolby Noise reduction worked very well but for the fact that users failed to follow recommendations as to tape selection, and high output tapes threw off the Dolby level calibration.

This basic information is from Dolby Labs (it does not get very technical):
Dolby B-type Noise Reduction

Dolby B-type noise reduction is the original Dolby system designed for consumer tape recorders. It is inlcuded in all but the least expensive cassette machines today, and is used in the preparation of the vast majority of prerecorded cassettes. It is also incorporated in many stereo VHS videocassette recorded to improve their linear audio tracks and, in a modified form, in Dolby Surround decoders. Dolby B-type provides 10 dB of noise reduction at the higher frequencies where tape hiss predominates.

Dolby C-type Noise Reduction

Dolby C-type noise reduction was developed to improve the cassette medium still further by providing twice the tape hiss reduction (20 dB) of Dolby B-type. It is offered along with Dolby B-type in a variety of mid-range and premium cassette decks and players. Dolby C-type is also used in many professional videocassette recorders.

Dolby S-type Noise Reduction

Intoduced in 1990, Dolby S-type is based upon the principles of the professional Dolby SR (Spectral Recording) process. It not only provides still more tape hiss reduction (24 dB), but also reduces low-frequency noise by 10 dB. Thus, it permits recording high-level signals at the frequency extremes more accurately and cleanly. In listening tests conducted during 1995 it compared very favorably with compact disc recordings, with most listeners judging the quality of Dolby S-type encoded tapes as comparable with or in some cases superior to the playback quality of the CD. Dolby S-type is steadily gaining momentum and is being incorporated first in state-of-the-art decks for the most discerning listeners.

Dolby HX Pro

Not a noise reduction system, Dolby HX Pro makes it possible to record loud musical passages with fewer high-frequency losses and less distortion. It is available in better cassette decks and is also widely used by the recording industry to improve the quality of prerecorded cassetes, through its process of reducing the effects of tape saturation. As no encoding of the signal takes place, no playback decoding circuitry is required to realize the benefits of Dolby HX Pro.

 

Well, they broke their philosophy with Dolby "C". The treble boost is part of what made it fail.

One of the biggest reasons people have problems with Dolby is because the decks that record and play them are not properly calibrated and the heads are often not aligned properly. Add this to the varying physical properties of the tapes, heads, and electronics, and you have a recipie for disaster. With Dolby "C" the physical tolerances are tighter and the electronics are unforgiving when off. With Dolby "S" the tolerances must be tighter, but at least the compander is more forgiving. Most US record companies refused to consider Dolby "C" for duplication and marketing because of potential playback problems, but some did use Dolby "S".

 

Noise reductionin a car?

Please take my comments in the playful tone that are intended:

noise reduction in a car... that is like fighting for peace. Most cars are horrible sound chambers. Road noise, Wind noise, AC noise, EMS, Police, and Fire Engine Noise, Rain noise, Engine noise.. and the list goes on. And we are worried about tape hiss? I have yet to put a CD in a car, just for the fac that noise levels outside of the audio equipment don;t make it easy to be an active listener. So what if there is some tape hiss in the car. It is minor compared to other factors int he audio environment.

 

Listen and and enjoy. Don't worry about the "political correctness" of how you should listen. I love to listen to music in my car because I don't have to worry about sitting in the sweet spot, or adjusting the toe-in of speakers, or the VTA of my tonearm, soundstaging, or the "hoffmanite" quality of the recording...or various other audiophile considerations I concern myself with when I listen to music at home. It's a completely different listening experience. Get in the car, crank up the bass and treble and enjoy the music. Push the dolby button until you like the sound and don't even pay any attention to the setting.

 

My experience in making cassettes for the car from LP records was that I achieved the best effect using high quality metal tapes and no noise reduction, with the recording level as high as possible. Metal tapes can record a hotter signal. These tapes sounded better than Dolby B or Dolby C - I never saw a car cassette player with Dolby C, though I am sure they existed. I don't make recordings now.

I agree with most of Grant's observations on noise reduction.

Regards,
Metralla

 

Sometimes I think music in the car sounds better than on my home system. With the windows rolled up, I think it sounds pretty sharp- and they're just cassettes. Finally got my AC fixed, and even with the noise of that, the music sounded fine. And it's funny that cassettes of recent albums (last 5 yrs.), often sound exactly like the CD, in that it's the exact same over-amped, crappy, loud production. I have never felt that listening to that type of production on boomboxes or in the car make it sound better- I can always tell it no matter what the playback, and you can't make them sound good on anything. Recent example: Matthew Sweet "In Reverse", I challenge anyone to come up with a way to make that lousy sounding album tolerable.

nashreed

 

Well, I can *still* hear the sonic degradation and hiss of tape in a moving car.

 

"Well, I can *still* hear the sonic degradation and hiss of tape in a moving car."

That's too bad. Try to ignore it and listen for the music....