Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

No, that's a new version Neil recorded in 1997 specifically for that tribute album.

The '96 Version is a remix of the original album recording.

 

This is my 1st post for this, although i've been lurking. Im a Crowded House fan so i skipped the other 100 odd pages on Split Endz and the solo stuff.

DDIO to me is an uplifting song. I know that its filled with desperation in Neils lyrics and tone and he's almost pleading with you in his delivery, for the bulk of the song. But after the Organ solo, the song does a bit of a 180 and the music becomes a lot more positive, those earlier verses are shed away and positivity comes bursting through. I don't know quite what the lyrics are all about, i don't think its about any one thing in particular, but its more of an 'outlook' that bad things happen but its only a moment it happens for, or something to that effect.

Anyway, its still a 5/5 for me. I'll come back and comment on the other CH songs from the debut later when i get home from work.

 

This is a difficult one for me. The song itself has a beautiful melody. I had a quick look on Spotify to see what cover versions there are, and they just go on and one. Some are interesting, but I notice cover versions by Richard Clayderman, The Glee Cast, Donny Osmond, and Susan Boyle. I'm not sure about this mainstream, particularly middle of the road, acceptance, but I don't begrudge Neil his success.

I don't think the production shows off the song as well as it could. It made the song a hit, sure. But, I wish there had perhaps been a cut-down version for a b-side or something. I have a memory that Eddie Rayner did a cover version with a female singer, that I prefer the arrangement of, but I can't find it now.

I agree that the hammond solo is beautiful. The song and production is beautiful, but again perhaps a bit too beautiful. I note that Donny Osmond's even more overdone version seems to have a near identical organ solo.

The use of the payola network is also something I'm not sure about. The FBI were cracking down on that because ... it is a bit wrong. Again, I don't begrudge Neil and the band's success, but I wish that it had been achieved in a slightly different way. On the other hand, I can understand it being done. After all that work with Split Enz, why shouldn't they do what others have done to get a hit? I don't blame anyone in any way or think they shouldn't have done it. That was the situation they found themselves in. And they made the best of it. And if they hadn't there wouldn't be all those cover versions and Fleetwood Mac fans wouldn't be hearing it.

Listening to some of the cover versions helps me appreciate the song more. While I quote Susan Boyle as an example of mainstream adoption, her version is quite nice until the chorus hits where there are backing vocals that don't fit so well. Listening to Richard Clayderman's version is interesting as it does show the beauty of the melody, albeit in a very middle of the road setting. They say that a great song survives being rearranged in various ways, and DDIO survives reggae (Urban Love, Stanryck) arrangements, the 'pan-pipe chill out' version, etc.

I'm trying to not be 'too cool for school' and be one of these people who says that a band's biggest hit is their worst song or anything. But, if I list the songs on the debut album, it's not my favourite. Also, if I had no idea who the original writer was and listened to all the versions on Spotify, I don't think I'd pick the CH version as my favourite. E.g. the simple acoustic guitar + vocal + backing vocals + synth version by Lotte Kestner to me, shows off the song better. But, that would never have been a hit - I think. I played the version by the 'Chill Out Sex Band' (!) expecting it to be awful, but the song easily survives that as well.

I can certainly appreciate @Paul H 's and @robcar s takes on it. Not that I don't understand the 5/5s. It's clearly a song that resonates with many people, that's perfect for them. Nothing wrong with that.

After all that waffle, I've got to give it a score:

4.2 / 5

If I hadn't listened to all the cover versions, I might have rated it in the high 3s.

[off-topic Appendix]

And, after being prompted by @AudioEnz to get tickets for Blam Blam Blam, I thought that I should check out who else will be playing in New Zealand while we're there. I googled Tiny Ruins (who I first saw when she supported Neil Finn in 2014) and found nothing in New Zealand. I thought I'd check further and found a tour. Looking down the list I saw Leicester (where I live) and thought 'Oh, I bet that's while we're in NZ and HEY! THAT'S TONIGHT!!'. So, I went. I got her latest album, and had it dedicated to 'A fellow Avondale College alumni'. I have to thank @AudioEnz and credit this thread, as if it hadn't been for @AudioEnz's post, I wouldn't have been doing that googling and wouldn't have known of the concert.

 

Welcome to the thread!

 

I've given some pretty harsh ratings recently, but I do think this is deservedly considered a classic. I don't tend to think about whether it is one of Neil's greatest ever songs, but it has a much more mature lyric than most of the tracks from this era and also a memorable (and hummable) tune.

I agree that globally it is the most famous song either brother has written, but in the UK Weather With You is probably more well known. Which actually reminds me of an American review for this album which said something along the lines of, "The group's success didn't last beyond the end of the decade." It shows how different perspectives can be because in the UK the group's success didn't really start until the 90s.

Anyway, a fine song and certainly the highlight of this patchy album for me. 5/5.

 

Don't Dream It's Over was the song that first drew CH to my attention. In the UK it stood out from the rest of the Top 40 like a sore thumb. That intro is like nothing else I've ever heard before or since. That, and the follow-up, Something So Strong, convinced me that Neil Finn was a real songwriter. There's a mildly interesting story to my acquisition of this song. I lived in a small village. One of the local newsagents decided to start selling a small selection of records (my how times have changed): literally, the Top 10 albums and Top 20 singles. But they'd happily take orders. So, one day, I went in and ordered the DDIO 12" (I never bought 7" singles). However, weeks passed by with no news of the disc's arrival. Every week I'd ask and every week they'd tell me that yes, the order had been placed but, no, it hadn't turned up. A couple of months after I'd ordered it I went on holiday with my family up to Scotland. One day we decided to visit Glasgow and walked past their HMW. It was enormous. Something like 3 or 4 floors. This country kid had never seen anything like it. Lo and behold, there on the racks, was this near-mythical single. Sods Law told me that if I bought it, my original order would turn up in quick order but that, if I didn't, I'd get a call saying my order had been cancelled or somesuch. So I bought it. And within two days of returning home, I had two copies! There was a point when the record collecting market was so buoyant that I had about £60-worth of vinyl in those two singles. But not now.

So DDIO is a song that I love a lot. I love the feel of the song, the mood it sets even if the lyrics are somewhat suspect. And yes...

Regardless, I can't give this song anything less than a 5/5.

 

If there's anything you've ever wanted to ask Neil, you'll have a chance to talk to him on Skype audio in about 13 1/2 hours from now. Fangradio, run from his laptop, will live stream on Mixlr at about 11am Sydney time, Saturday 16th August. That's 0100 GMT. More details at www.neilfinn.com/fangradio .

 

Errata: I got confused where the cut-off for songs were, and read part of @Paul H's comments on NWGS as DDOI. Many apologies.

When I said that thought that Eddie had done a version of DDIO with female vocals, I was most likely thinking of the version by Margaret Urlich. It's produced by Eddie, but I was thinking that the song was on an Eddie album.

 

I'll let you off. Just this once, mind.

 

I have to say in light of some of the criticism, that I think Neil's lyrics are wonderful, both here and on the previous song. His approach to lyrics doesn't always work for me, but when they do they are perfect -- as lyrics.

On paper, they aren't much cop as stand-alone poems -- a book of Tim lyrics would be much more entertaining than a book of Neil lyrics. Tim, as I've said before, is amazingly underrated as a lyricist, in my opinion: his lyric manage to both be musical yet look good as words on their own.

But as lyrics, Neil's just work.

First of all, they often sound beautiful when sung -- Neil's words are musical in and of themselves, quite divorced from their meaning.

But it's more than that: they seem obviously culled from different experiences and life sources, as if he's taken random lines from poems that support the mood. But in conjunction with the music, they make total sense: both the lyric and the music manage to evoke very emotions in me.

The emotions they evoke in me (or convey to me) are not the type of things that I can easily intellectually explain: because not all emotions can be explained by words. And I think this is where Neil's songwriting does things that Tim's or most songwriters don't: it explores the inarticulate depths of the human heart.

I'm not knocking Tim's lyrics, or anyone else's for that matter: Tim's lyrics are fantastic, as I've said, and are more rooted in a literary tradition. I'm just attempting to describe what Neil's lyrics mean to me.

His lyrics don't always work: World Where You Live is a good example of that; so are some songs like "Sacred Cow" or "Anyone Can Tell" -- there they fail for me. But when they work, I really think they work in a unique way that I have found incredibly influential on my own writing, both back in my song-writing days and in other more word-oriented endeavors.

 

Don't Dream It's Over

A timeless classic

5/5...…..with sugar on top

 

I would love that too. In fact, it would be great if both Finn Brothers albums, plus Neil's first two solo albums, were all released on vinyl. And as deluxe editions on CD, overseen by Jaffaman of course, with all the "B sides", demos, outtakes and whatnot.

 

DDIO was a watershed moment as a Finn fan in the USA. For the first time a Finn was EVERYWHERE. MTV had shown Split Enz videos quite a bit in their early days. But, you had to have cable tv (which a lot of America didn’t have in the early 80’s), and your local cable system had to carry MTV as one of their channels (I was lucky on both counts!).

With DDIO Neil Finn was now all over the US airwaves on both radio and television. Magazines and newspapers were writing about Neil and CH. The CH album could be found in every music store (SO very different than the days of the Enz). They band zig zagged the country on tour. It was an extremely exciting time to be an American Finn fan!

But, I couldn’t help but feel sad for Tim. I’m sure he was very proud of his little brother. But Tim was missing out on international fame, on such a large scale, that Split Enz (undeservedly) missed out on. Life can be cruel and very unfair.

DDIO: 5/5.

 

This entire thread has been building to DDIO, realistically, because as great as are many remaining songs nothing matches the sheer majesty and artistry of this composition (though the live Distant Sun from Farewell to the World is another real high point -- the cheers during the end of the guitar solo are spine tingling). DDIO matches any ballad by the Beatles for sheer brilliance.

Did I mention I like this song? Anyway, a 6/5 if that's allowed.

 

Even though I've heard "Don't Dream It's Over" zillions of times, both out of choice on my stereo and when it has been played on the radio, it still sends shivers down my spine when I hear the opening guitar chords. Right away the song presents itself clearly - a classic song is about to be played. Neil's singing is very committed, every word sounds like an emotion that is genuine and important to him and the music around his voice really gets the heart and soul of the song. I think it was a brilliant choice to have the solo played by a Hammond organ and not a synthesizer, it gives the song a warmer sound. This song could have been really horrible if it had a 1985-spec synthesizer and a huge strings section on it, which might have been tempting to add.
The lyrics to me seems to be about being in a bit of a relationship crisis, but being determined to resolve the issues causing problems. "When the world comes in / They come, they come / to build a wall between us" - I think in any relationship there might be external pressures such as career situations, financial issues, friends and other family members demanding attention or perhaps intervening too much, as well as the two persons in the relationship having different opinions about things. Of course, if one of the persons is a musician who is away on tours for long periods of time, that might of course add a lot of strain to any relationship. I think that's what those words in the song refer to. And perhaps "but you turn right over to the TV page" in the second verse expresses how a person in a relationship may be unable to deal with all of these issues and, for a while, seeks escape in watching TV shows. The third verse sounds to me like the relationship crisis has now passed, which the narrator is relieved about and now the couple are on their way to reconciliation. That's my interpretation of the lyrics anyway.

The extended mix isn't that great in my opinion. Like so many extended mixes of the mid-80s, it's more "slightly interesting" than good, a little bonus to get die-hard fans to buy the 12" single as well.

I remember there was a huge charity concert for Nelson Mandela in 1988, broadcast on TV worldwide. Crowded House weren't a part of it, but as a fan I was really proud when Paul Young stepped up to the microphone, saying he was now going to sing "a song written by Mr Neil Finn". It was "Don't Dream It's Over" of course and such a powerful moment. The song really fitted the occasion and it was a very good version. His subsequent studio recording, in 1991, was OK but not as good as that live version.

In Sweden, "Don't Dream It's Over" was the first single released off the album. The record company here were initially not planning to release a single at all as they weren't expecting anything special from the album. (There were no singles released here off "Conflicting Emotions" or "Big Canoe") The single was released here in December 1986 (backed with "That's What I Call Love") and it became a radio hit. Sweden only had three radio channels at the time and only one of these played rock/pop music. The most important radio show was called "Tracks", where listeners sent in their votes to create a top 40 list each week. Unexpectedly, the song reached #19 on this chart, in late December 1986, before it had been the huge hit it was about to become in the States. That was quite unusual - Sweden usually looked to what was happening in the US and UK charts before anything happened here.

It's a real classic and well-deserved too. I give it 5/5.

 

I suppose I should ask him what DDIO is about! (But I’m sure he’s been asked that question many times over the years and that his answers are out there for me to find.)

 

I feel the same as the consensus here about DDIO: I love the intro, the organ, and the fade out, and I don't fully understand the lyrics. But the lyric problem bothers me less than it used to, because I've heard the song so many times over the years that I don't hear the lyrics as separate words to be understood, more as another musical instrument that forms part of the whole song.

Strangely, I hardly ever choose to deliberately play DDIO, on the grounds that I've heard it so many times I know it inside out and probably will not get anything out of hearing it again compared to a CH song I've heard less often, but whenever I hear it randomly on the radio or TV I never switch it off and I always enjoy listening to it.

Classic 5/5

 

This was the right song at the right time: no more, no less. But it's also a *really* good, compelling tune. To my eye (ear?), not being able to fully reconcile the lyrics on this one works in its favor in that it can be about whatever the listener needs it to be about (Box of Rain by Grateful Dead is another example). I don't always get that vibe from tunes with obtuse/ambiguous lyrics.

5/5 for me, I suppose.

 

Vinyl release of “Finn” is on the way via Needle Mythology.

 

It’s not that easy to find. Go ahead, ask him... though he doesn’t really like talking about the meaning of his songs...

 

Neil mentioned somewhere that the “deluge in a paper cup” lyric is a reference to John Lennon’s “like endless rain into a paper cup” lyric from “Across the Universe,” which I’m sad to say had never occurred to me.

I think he also said once that a song only needs to have three good lines in it... and indeed Neil’s songs sometimes feel like they contain a few phrases whose meaning or feeling are easy to grab onto, and then a lot of other words that could mean anything.

 

I know he doesn't, which is why I would never actually ask that!

 

I dare ya!

 

It's on Margaret Urlich's album "Second Nature" released in 1999 which was produced by Eddie. Eddie also plays piano and keyboards on the album and among the other musicians are Michael den Elzen of Schnell Fenster. In addition to "Don't Dream It's Over" the album, which features Margaret Urlich's renditions of classic NZ pop/rock songs, also features "I Hope I Never" and "Stuff 'n' Nonsense" as well as Dave Dobbyn's "Whaling" and "Language" and other tracks. I highly recommend this album!

 

DDIO is one of my all time favorite songs, period. World without end. Prior to hearing it in 1986, I only knew of Neil Finn from "I Got You"...