Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Speaking of "Don't Dream It's Over" covers, here is a different take on the song by Swedish indie/shoegaze band Whale:


One thing that is a bit interesting here is one of the guitarists, the guy in the white shirt, Henrik Schyffert. When Crowded House played at Hard Rock Café in Stockholm in September 1986, they were supporting a Swedish hard rock group called Dalton. There were perhaps 50 people in the building that evening, most of them were there to see Dalton (especially as very few people had heard of Crowded House, let alone knew they were going to play) and of those 50, I'd say that maybe five persons were there to see Crowded House. One of them was Henrik Schyffert who at that time was an unknown 18-year-old trainee at Swedish radio who was there to interview Crowded House after the show. His interview was broadcast on radio later that evening (a few minutes after I got home) and it was obvious from his questions that he knew a lot about Split Enz. Following his stint at Swedish radio and then as guitarist in Whale, he is now one of Sweden's most famous comedians and TV personalities

 

Our votes for "Don't Dream It's Over"

1-0
2-0
3-0
4-1
5-12
Average: 4.908
This is officially the highest rated Finn song to date and ties with "Double Happy" (!) for the most votes.

 

Today's song is "Love You 'Til the Day I Die", written by Neil Finn.


Spotify:Love You 'Til The Day I Die

"Love You 'Til The Day I Die" was released as a B-side. It was a staple in Crowded House's live set: live versions were released on the Recurring Dream bonus live disc, Farewell To the World and the North American Travelogue, as well as the Town and Country promo disc.

A R&B flecked rocker, it began life as a gentle acoustic home demo played on mandolin, which was released in 2016 on the Crowded House deluxe set and which I'll link to below. It was transformed into it's rocking form by Mitchell Froom and Neil Finn in pre-production, according to Something So Strong, the biography by Chris Bourke.

 

Demo version:

Spotify: Love You 'Til The Day I Die - Home Demo

 

I'm a huge fan of the song, especially the live versions, which is one of those songs where Crowded House could really stretch out a bit and rock.

I have several live versions of the song, my favorite being the one on Recurring Dream bonus disc, linked below:

I have a question for those who may have caught the band live in 2010, though. On the live version on the North American Travelogue, who is singing the high harmony on this song, I mean "Paul's part"? Is it Mark Hart? Whoever it is is on it.

 

OK, well. I love the song, always have; especially live, but the studio version is great, and in it's hard, rocking way, almost as packed with hooks as "World Where You Live" and "Something So Strong"-- especially the middle 8 bit, from "Frost on the window panes..." through the instrumental horn part (usually a guitar solo live) and the drum solo behind "pull yourself together, baby, push with all of your might", is another masterpiece of a bridge.

What's weird is the the difference between demo and finalized version. This proves just how great the Froom/Finn collaboration was, but I don't want to undersell Nick and Paul's work in the rhythm section: classic R&B from Nick played with a slightly funky twist and Paul just rocks; some of his finest drumming in studio. In fact, I may think Crowded House is Paul's peak as a drummer, (though I've seen live shows from years later where he rocked just as convincingly.)

The song is sort of a sequel to "Dirty Creature"the Neil-Tim-Griggs song from Time and Tide and I think is connected to the lyric of "Stranger Underneath Your Skin" and "I Feel Possessed." Lyrically it continue similar themes to "Dirty Creature", the part where something dark lurks in the underside of the psyche. Tim's lyric more effortlessly conjures up Jungian imagery, but Neil's goes emotionally further and even darker: while Tim admits to the Dirty Creature's existence, there's a facet to this song in which Neil seems to almost enjoy the Dirty Things Kept in the Closet of His Mind, he wants to take them out and go for a walk, "just to see the look that's on your face."

It's a complex and dark look at a relationship; and I suppose that when one is very close to someone in a relationship, dark things in the psyche do come out behind closed doors. Like "Dirty Creature" it's a highly unusual and sophisticated for a pop song.

But I think the song resembles "Dirty Creature" musically, too: it's cut from a similar funky, rhythmic cloth of hard-hitting drums, R&B bass, and staccato guitar jabs and piano licks.

Anyway, because we don't rate live versions separately, I'm also including live songs in my estimation and going with the version I like best for my rating. The studio version here I'd rate highly, probably a 4.6 or so, but the live versions on Recurring Dream and Town and Country are both sublime and I give them a full 5, which is what I'll go with.

 

A bit disappointed in today's news that Mark Hart has been booted from Crowded House.

"Love You 'Til The Day I Die" is one of my two least favorite tracks on Crowded House. I don't actively DISlike it, but it doesn't do much for me, starting from the wild yelps (is that Paul?) that begin the track. There's some nice raunchy guitar work on it, and -- hey, for once even I can understand what the lyric means! The song has an interesting melodic progression, I'll grant. The finished product doesn't sound much at all like the home demo that was issued as a bonus track on the deluxe edition of the debut (played on a mandolin!). The stop and start rhythm it employs keeps things interesting, but it also means that the song never develops any sort of real groove.

I'll wait to discuss the various live versions until we reach the periods when they appeared; I do like a couple of them better than the original album recording, including the one Lance linked above from Newcastle, Australia on 3-20-92 that was first issued as a b-side on the "Four Seasons In One Day" single and then later included on the live bonus disc in the Recurring Dream: The Very Best of Crowded House compilation.

Overall, I give this one a 3.6/5.

 

I am also very disappointed that Mark Hart is out. Although it's just a one-off concert on the other side of the world that I'm sure I will never see!

Besides being absolutely vital live, I think he brought a lot to Crowded House's sound and just when that new sound got going, they broke up.

I feel like Together Alone and Intriguer were the only albums we really heard his influence, as he was not on most of Time on Earth. His music was totally different from Neil's, but it blended well he really brought a fresh color to Neil's songs, IMO. He was the perfect multi-instrumentalist side-man.

 

Like Lance I really like this one. It's a slow plodding rocker, in a good way, and I think it adds a lot to the album to have the song on it.

In the live versions I like the interjections by, I assume, Paul. 'The best cold beer is Vic.' While the guitar solo doesn't have Eddie van Halen levels of technical proficiency, the solo that's there suits the song, and suits the personality of the band/Neil. It's a fun song live.

The production is interesting. On top of the basic guitar-bass-drums, there are quite a few synthesiser/keyboard touches. If Nick Launay had been producing I fear those keyboards/synths would have been too intrusive and ... adversely affect the song.

I interpret the lyric as being a quite simple love song where someone admits all their faults, but then expresses undying love to their beloved. There could be layers of meaning and more subtlety, but that's how I interpret it.

I give this one a:

4.3

[Off-topic Appendix]

Unfortunately while I tried to listen to Neil's radio show last night, it started at 2am local time and I fell asleep in a chair with headphones on listening to it. I missed any discussion of the CH concert. Could someone give an executive summary?

EDIT: Mark Hart's tweet on the topic: Mark Hart (@MarkHartMusic) | Twitter

 

Been busy for a couple of days and got behind!! LYTTDID is a song I listen to on its own. Following DDIO on the album I usually have the previous chorus going round my head for a while!!! Played as a standalone, it gets a solid 4.

 

Sorry to be the party pooper, but I have never enjoyed this song...or any element of it in all honesty.

This is the style of singing that I really dislike from Neil, the lyrics are uninteresting and I think the limitations of the musicians are apparent as well.

1/5.

I should stress again that I am a genuine fan of Crowded House, but much more the 3rd and 4th albums rather than the first two.

With regard to Mark Hart, I don't really know much about the behind the scenes going on. Is there a history of him and Neil not getting on? And, out of interest, does anyone know who owns the name to the band? Is it Neil alone? Or Neil and Nick? And do Paul Hester's estate get a % of anything they do?

 

Now I don't feel so bad about being the person who gave DDIO less than 5/5

 

Mitchell Froom is handling keyboards. There is a history of Mark being shunted aside whenever Mitchell is involved with a project. I don’t think Froom can play those guitar/pedal steel parts, though. Not sure who will be handling that.

As to who owns the name, I don’t know. Obviously Neil calls the shots, though.

I believe that Nick and Paul got 5% each of Neil’s royalties, but I’m not sure if that continues for Paul’s heirs.

 

Love You 'Til... is a master class in songwriting and production, plus vocal performance. It's clearly a 5/5 in my book, but if allowed I'd go with 9/5 to counterbalance the 1/5 someone gave it.

 

I much prefer the mandolin demo version of LYTTDID that Lance posted above from the CH deluxe set to the final album version because, like Turk Thrust, I dislike Neil's shouty singing style, and also I feel the melody is drowned out by the more forceful music - a bit like "Locked Out" from Together Alone. So only 2/5

 

"Don't Dream It's Over"--count me as one of the song's big fans. In addition to the musical highlights already mentioned by others (especially the unforgettable, achingly gorgeous organ part and the completely arresting opening guitar strums), I'd also point out the infectiously bubbling bass line that gives the song a kind of momentum not usually present in "ballads."

In addition, I'm honestly surprised by the comments about the lyrics. I just pulled them up, and they seem fairly straightforward to me. My interpretation is that the narrator is in a relationship (possibly, but not necessarily, a romantic one) where his own intensity of feeling (in general--not just about the relationship itself) does not seem to be matched by the other. He is imploring both himself and the other not to give up, while also recognizing (somewhat Sartre-like) that it is part of the human condition to suffer in our relationships with others ("Only shadows [...] know the feeling of liberation and release" along with "You'll never see the end of the road while you're traveling with me"). He seems to be imploring the other person to stick with the relationship, even though doing so will inevitably result in a lot of turmoil and tumult that the other person (tending to "turn right over to the TV page") may not be comfortable with. The titular line can be read as directed to both the other person and himself in the face of their challenge, and maybe even helps to explain the narrator's general emotional intensity.

Having said all that, I don't think it's necessary to share my interpretation in order to enjoy the song. The main chorus message can be applied to all kinds of individual situations and struggles, and the music's rather extraordinary, bittersweet combination of hope and melancholy gives the message an almost magical degree of intimacy. I've never understood the notion that one had to understand exactly what a song's lyrics are trying to convey, especially with writers like Neil, whom I believe purposely leave room for the listener to fill in many of the blanks.

In my own case, this song kind of snuck up on me back in '86-'87. I think I barely noticed it at first, though the video was kind of intriguing. But with repeated listens, it started to work its way into my psyche, and it seemed to hit its peak in terms of radio play right around the time I was graduating high school. Could a song have better fit that combination of melancholy over the impending leaving of one's home and so many good friends, as well as hope for what the future may hold? For me, the song is definitely the highlight of the album, and one of the highlights of both Neil's career and of pop music in general. 10/5.

 

I think "Love You 'Til The Day I Die" is a special song and it's also very interesting to compare the home demo to the album version. How did they get from A to B? I can imagine it being tried in the gentle, acoustic version in the studio and Mitchell Froom thinking it wasn't working, so he suggested they try and play it as fast and rocky as possible. That gives the album version a real edge, a sense of real desperation. I think if someone just sees the title, one might expect a sugar-laden ballad (just imagine what Glenn Medeiros could do with that song title… ) and instead it's quite the opposite.
I hear this as quite a dark song. As Lance has mentioned, several lyrics on the album have a recurring theme of seeking human connection and to me many of the songs seem to deal with a relationship crisis. When I hear this song, and the unexpected shouting that starts it, I get the impression that the narrator has just had a really bad quarrel, perhaps over the phone, with his significant other and is angry and upset and perhaps also feels that some of the things the significant other said was unfair and not true. Perhaps the narrator is also a bit angry with himself, realising that what really hurts is that some of the things that the other person said might actually be true and now the narrator has to try and deal with that. Maybe the other person said something about how he is such a coldhearted person in some ways and doesn't always tell the truth. I've always heard the lyrics as the response to what that person said but also that the narrator now is fighting for the relationship, beyond the angry words of the quarrel there is also strong love. When he sings "Sometimes I come on cold / but don't believe it / I will love you 'til the day I die", as a listener I believe he means every word. They are not just hollow words. The combination of these lyrics with the shouting kind of singing, the tempo and the sound of the electric guitar(s) makes the song real intense. It sounds like it's based on real emotions and real desperation and I think it's good that they didn't polish it up too much.

I recall reading an Australian interview with Tim from 1991, when "Woodface" had just been released, and he commented on the first album. The interviewer said something about Crowded House being a happy-go-lucky kind of band and Tim reacted to that. I don't have the article with me right now but from memory his response was something like, "Lots of people have said Crowded House were so happy go lucky on the first album and then wonder why they became so dark on the second album. But there are some very dark songs on the first album, just look at 'Love You 'Til The Day I Die' and 'Hole In The River'."

I give this song 4,5/5.

 

Where has this news come from???!!!

 

LYTTDID: I don't think this is actually that good a song. However, the arrangement and performance is sublime and absolutely nails it. This track is the performance: it is demented, manic and utterly over the top. And I love Neil's crazed "I just do mad things to see how you will react" lyric. For these reasons, I give a 3/5 song a solid 4/5

 

I found the article I was referring to above. It is an interview with Tim from the magazine/paper On The Street, dated 7th August 1991. The interviewer's question is "Last time I interviewed Neil he expressed concern that the wacky and zany image of Crowded House was dominating the musical side. Is this something that concerns you, Paul Hester or Nick Seymour also?". Tim gives quite a lengthy reply to this question and part of his reply is: "I don't think ultimately it stops people from enjoying the music, but I think it sometimes make the perception of the band lighter than it is. Like when people talked about the first Crowded House record as being up, positive, bright and poppy and 'Gee, what happened with Temple of Low Men' but if you look at lyrics like 'Hole In The River' I don't think you could turn to me and say that the band was up beat on that first record. 'Love You Til The Day I Die' - all those best Neil songs are riddled with uncertainty and confusion."

 

Where has information appeared about who is going to be in the band for this 2020 show?

 

Neil said something on his internet radio show/podcast/thing the other night, and Mark Hart tweeted that he is not going to be in the band for the concert. I'm not aware of any other news being available.

 

Yes. Mark tweeted that he was out. Neil mentioned that Mitchell Froom would be playing, apparently. (I didn't listen to the fangradio -- too late for my old self.) I don't think anything else about the line up is known at all.

 

I guess it depends on how much to read into Mark's wording. I could understand if Neil had reconnected with Mitchell and been excited by the idea of actually playing live with him for the first time (discounting one-off TV appearances). That would leave no room for Mark on stage. But Mark expressly referred to not being part of the new line-up, implying that a "permanent" band had been formed. Neil cryptically made mention of some more surprises to be announced. Here's my guess: Crowded House has been reformed with Mitchell and Mick Fleetwood (I mean, after the FM tour concludes, what else is he gonna do for a few years?) replacing Mark and Matt respectively. (I can see a scenario where Neil turns the tables on Mick and invites him to join CH )

In a desperate attempt to stop this thread from de-railing, all I'll say about the Neil/Nick/Mark triumvirate is that I will love you 'til the day I die...

 

I think that they should call the new band Neil Finn and the Tearaways. It has a ring to it.