Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Yes, I mean the one on Spotify. I kind of doubt that Tim could sing those songs at this point, they sound like they were written for his 1978 voice.

However, looking at that reverbnation link above there are five Tim songs there that I've never heard:

• "Lament" (the piano composition from "Remember When"that Tim revisits from time to time) This one is just the piano part though presented as its own composition.
• "New Friends" demo from the Fiery Maze with Tim on lead vocal
• "Driving Blind" demo
• "Emptiness"
• "Moment to Moment"
• "Every Good Boy" demo

Can anybody date these for me? I assume "New Friends" is from the late nineties which is when The Fiery Maze was written. Are these from those I like It Rare compilations?

But the other ones? They sound like demos from the '00s but I'm not sure. Moment to Moment is gorgeous. Or are most of these View is Worth the Climb outtakes?

 

Naturally, I love "Cruel Black Crow." This is the kind of thing that I actually think Tim Finn lacks: a real arty, screw-commerciality, dark post-punk song, all edge, no rounded corners. The lyric is rather obviously about depression, perhaps more explicitly so than the other songs on the album and the whole thing makes me feel uneasy and unusual. I think he really captured depression it its darkest most active state; the song almost sounds gleefully wicked. I wish he'd ended the album with this (not that I'd want anything cut, necessarily,) I like this a whole heck of a lot more than "Tears Inside" or some of the other ballads and think this would have been a good counterweight to the adult contemporary touches on the album.

4.3/5.

 

I must admit that I don't like Cruel Black Crow.

It's an interesting song, and with the backing vocals and production, the team have given it their all. However, the vocal melody just doesn't cut it. It sounds a bit, to me, like a polished ... song that isn't very good.

The lyrics are interesting, but even for 'uncommercial' songs, I want some sort of an interesting melody. That doesn't have to be a nicey-nice hit melody, but there are plenty of uncommercial songs that have a well structured interesting, even if way left field, melody. To me: this song doesn't.

2.7/5

 

"Cruel Black Crow" is the very definition of a non-album b-side to me. It's weaker in my estimation than the 10 songs that made the album, justifying its relegation to the b-side of "How'm I Gonna Sleep", the first single. It's certainly not terrible, but there's very little of interest in it that makes me want to return to it. It's a tepid rocker but I don't hear much fire or passion in it, although the lyrics must have some significance to Tim. 2.9/5

 

As for the Tim Finn album, I like it but have never loved it. It seems to lack something for me, but I'm not sure I can exactly identify what that is For some reason, the album seems to be less than the sum of its parts for me. On a song for song basis, it's pretty solid. Yet, as an album, it leaves me sort of shrugging my shoulders over it. I like the overall production and sound of the album and I feel like I should love the album rather than simply like it. Oh well. I'll give it a 3.8 - it's certainly the best Tim Finn solo album we've covered so far, although I think one or two better ones are still to come down the road (although NOT the one that's been mentioned by a few here already - that one has never appealed to me much. Later ones.)

 

Cruel Black Crow.

Moderately tuneless and it drags on forever. A lot of songs from this era tended to be far too long...

It sounds very much like a b-side.

2/5.

 

I like Cruel Black Crow for what it is - a throwaway track that makes no sense, but it somehow still very listenable (to my ears).

4/5

 

"Cruel Black Crow" is quite quirky and raw and it's a nice song to hear once in a while. I think it has a kind of dissonance about it thanks to the slightly weird keyboard sounds and that aspect makes it a bit uneasy listening, which fits the topic of the song (the cruel black crow as a metaphor for depression). As a soundscape I find this track intriguing, but I'm not sure the actual song - if you strip away weird sounds - is fully developed. One thing I do like is Tim's singing. It sounds a bit theatrical, but I don't mean that in a negative way. I could see this work very well in the context of a stage play, but I can also see that this aspect might have been a factor that relegated it to a B side rather than be part of the "Tim Finn" album.

The phrase "cruel black crow" also appears in the Phil Manzanera song "The Rich and the Poor" which is coming up for discussion soon. Tim co-wrote that with Phil Manzanera (I've read that for these songs, Tim wrote the lyrics and the melodies and Phil M the rhythms) for the "Southern Cross" album which was recorded in 1988-89, i.e. around the same time he was working on "Tim Finn". I wonder if "The Rich and the Poor" was written first and that Tim then liked the phrase "cruel black crow" and decided to write a song with that title for his own sessions.

3/5.

 

"Cruel Black Crow"--an interesting metaphor for depression, but this is an uninteresting melody in forcibly quirky dressing. I'd not heard it before, and I suppose I'm glad I've heard it now, but I don't see myself revisiting it.

But, Lance, thanks for finding a link.)

2/5

 

One thing I meant to add: my brother and I did a recording of "Won't Give In" fourteen years ago (see my avatar--and yes, we did pay the mechanical license fee, so Tim and Neil made enough for a couple of pints each off our recording). We played the first verse and chorus fairly straight, but in the second verse my brother began to add some sweeping guitars, which returned to prominence in the fade-out. The guitar sweeps in "Cruel Black Crow" brought them immediately to mind. My brother certainly wasn't drawing on Finn knowledge when he made his choices, but I found it interesting to hear an actual Finn antecedent to what he played.

 

A proper b-side. Nice enough to seek out the 7” or cd-single and play once in a while.

2.8 / 5

 

Our votes for "Cruel Black Crow"

1-0
2-2
3-4
4-2
4-0
Average: 2.5125

 

Today's song is "Parihaka" [single version]. "Parihaka" was written by Tim Finn and this version was produced by Tim Finn and Nick Morgan.

This song is a re-recording of the song that featured on Tim Finn. Our discussion of the album version took place here: Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

The single was recorded with New Zealand band Herbs.
This single was released in New Zealand alone and hit #6 there.

It was later released internationally, in 1993, as a track on the Persuasion double EP. And later still in 1999 on the compilation album Other Enz.

 

I don't have much to add to what I wrote earlier; only that the I prefer the loose, slightly ragged instrumentation and more soulful backing vocals of the single version to the uber-tight professionalism of Mitchell Froom's 1988 version.

So, still a 5/5.

 

Likewise. 3/5

 

Maybe this would be a good time to also discuss the B-side to the above single: "Parihaka" George Penare version. I don't have this version and it doesn't seem to stream anywhere. Those of you who have heard it can discuss and rate it here.

 

The re-recorded single version of "Parihaka" with Herbs seems to have more intensity than the album version of the song, which I gave a relatively low 3.4 to. I think Tim's vocal is better here, and the backing vocals by Herbs really add a lot to the song's atmosphere. I haven't heard the single's b-side, an instrumental version of the song with spoken word excerpts from Te Whiti's writing performed by an actor. That would be an interesting thing to hear, but I couldn't find it anywhere without buying the single (which I have no means to play anyway...). Anyway, for the a-side, I'll boost my rating to 3.9/5.

 

I was pretty harsh on the album version, but I do prefer the single release. It has a much fuller sound and I can understand why it is a favourite with many fans.

Still not really my thing, but 3/5.

 

I also like the single version. Herbs add a lot. As said, it has a fuller, and for me more organic, sound.

Listening to the song reminds me of the Rainbow Warrior benefit concert, in 1986, where both Split Enz and Herbs played. (As well as other artists.)

4/5

 

Here's the Parihaka video for those of us who can't see the above geo-restricted video.

 

As I mentioned upthread, "Parihaka" is one of my favorite songs on "Tim Finn." I'd never heard the single version before, but, boy, do I like the soulful, spiritual performance by Herbs. The new setting seems to bring out the best in Tim, whose vocal is just fantastic.

5/5

 

I love both versions of "Parihaka" and The Herbs feel for Pacific reggae fits the song really well. Very nice video too. The video, the Tim & Herbs collaboration on the single's A side and George Henare's spoken word excerpts from Te Whiti's speeches make a very fascinating combination, a real concept single.

I found a very interesting video on YouTube called "Remember Parihaka" which provides some more information about the historical background and shows images of the Parihaka village, all to the tune of a well-known song. Well worth watching! The video clip can be found here:


It's interesting that after "Tim Finn", Tim was involved in a lot of collaborations: this re-recording together with The Herbs, the "Southern Cross" album with Phil Manzanera, writing with Neil, a brief Split Enz reunion tour in Australia (with Crowded House as the support act) and writing with Phil Judd ("Long Hard Road" and "Precious Time"), plus quite a lot of session work. He really seems to thrive in collaborations and I'm happy for him that he had so many different outlets for different kinds of music.

The Tim & Herbs re-recording of "Parihaka" gets 5/5 from me.

 

This takes an already great song and makes it at least that good all over again. Still a 5/5 for me.

Interestingly, one of the things I noted about it in the album version is slightly changed, from "he watched the dog" to "they dreamed the dog" -- it does alter the meaning slightly, from explicity stating "Nature knows what's up" to "We see it as nature knowing what's up in our dreams/visions..." It's the only one of the little changes that I think weakens the song a little for me, but not nearly enough to knock it out of full marks.

 

I like the single version more than the album version. I have the NZ 7” and played the b-side. It’s a different mix, starting with speach with the music fading in after a few bars. The lead and backing vocals pop up between spoken word passages. Towards the end there’s an a capella section. Interesting for once or twice. Can’t garuantee I’ll play the b-side again somewhere in the next ten years or so..

single version 4.5 / 5

 

Perihaka with Herbs: 5/5.