Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    That acoustic show on the boat used to be on YouTube. Not sure it if still is. Very spirited performance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  2. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for "Tai Chi"

    1-0
    2-1
    3-4
    4-1
    5-0
    Average: 3.3
     
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  3. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I forgot to mention chart action for "Woodface":
    #1 in New Zealand
    #2 in Australia
    #6 in the UK
    #12 Switzerland, the The Netherlands
    #13 Norway
    #20 Canada
    #24 Sweden
    #26 Germany
    #83 US
    It went gold in in Canada, platinum in NZ and AUS and double platinum in the UK.
     
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  4. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today's song is "Chocolate Cake" written by Neil Finn and Tim Finn.

    Spotify: Chocolate Cake

    The song features harmonica by Chris Wilson (Australian musician) - Wikipedia

    Woodface credits included "Percussion by Alex Acuña - Wikipedia and Geoffrey Hales, but does not say on what songs. Mitchell Froom plays keyboards along with Neil and Tim Finn.

    Paul re-recorded the drums for this, wiping Ricky Fataar's tracks.
    Did Nick or Neil play bass on this single? The world will never know.
    ---

    "Chocolate Cake" was released as the lead-off single in many countries. The video cost $200 000!

    In the US, the market that Crowded House were keen to recapture, the song was initially marketed to alternative radio stations and hit number 1 on the charts, according to the Bourke book. However, Wikipedia lists it only as going as high as #2.

    Once that happened they decided to market it to pop radio stations where it, well, "sank like a stone." (The alternative market had not yet exploded though it would a mere few months after this release.)

    The song went top 10 in New Zealand and Canada (#7 and #9), #20 in Australia, #27 in the Netherlands and #69 in the USA.

    There is an amusing bit in the Chris Bourke bit where almost everyone blames everyone else for releasing it at all.
    Although Mitchell Frooom put a lot of work into the song, production-wise, he doesn't seem to have liked the song, mainly because of the lyric.

    Several versions have been released over the year:
    • the original Murchison Street demo, released as a B-side to Angel's Heap double EP in 1995
    • live versions on It's Only Natural double EP supposedly recorded in "Wolverhampton UK"(though this sounds identical to the Newcastle concert on June 19th 1992)
    • live version on Instinct double EP from 1995, recorded at 1992 in Newcastle Australia(again though, this is identical to the one above, however it has a short version of "Rocky Raccoon" at the beginning)
    • and on the North American Travelogue
    It's been on numerous bootlegs and fan club releases: I have 18 versions of this song!
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  5. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

  6. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Here's a live version from before Mark Hart re-joined, from Fremantle, Australia, July 1991. Paul "Arlo" Guthrie playing guitar.

    There are many more versions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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  7. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    One final live version from the Town and Country promo release:


    This was after Tim had left -- Arlo Guthrie is particularly prominent on this one.
     
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  8. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Collated ratings from Tim Finn and the 1990 songs.

    1. Young Mountain 4.2083
    2. Not Even Close 4.3107
    3. How'm I Gonna Sleep 4.033
    4. Parihaka 4.0667
    5. Tears Inside 3.17
    6. Birds Swim Fish Fly: 3.3083
    7. Suicide on Downing Street: 3.775
    8. Show a Little Mercy: 3.5545
    9. Crescendo 4.1556
    10. Been There Done That 3.9111



    • Cruel Black Crow 2.5125
    • Parihaka (single): 4.3545
    • Burnt Out Tree: 3.46
    • I May Be Late 3.15
    • Dr. Livingstone 3.68
    • My Legs Are Gone 3.5889
    • I Love You Dawn 3.8636
    • My Telly's Gone Bung: 2.685
    • Time Immemorial: 3.9962
    • Prodigal Sun: 3.75
    • A Million Reasons Why 2.0667
    • The Great Leveller 2.2714
    • Astrud 3.3857
    • Rich and Poor 2.9429
    • Dance (Break This Trance) 2.9143
    • Verde: 3.3857
    • Dr. Fidel 3.1875
    • Venceremos 1.9857
    • Fifth Wheel: 3.14
    • Am I Big Enough: 2.9167
    • Long Hard Road: 3.3909
    • Precious Time: 3.4143
    • Tai Chi: 3.3
     
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  9. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I've always really liked "Chocolate Cake."

    The lyric is self-explanatory and amusing -- uncharacteristically clear for Crowded House, probably thanks to Tim's relative articulacy.

    I vaguely remember this song being out at the time but didn't pay too much attention: I caught the video in a record store in Missouri and briefly noticed that there were four members instead of three, but didn't think much about it, though later I remember reading that Tim Finn (whoever he was) had joined Neil Finn's band.

    ( -- I did not buy the album until 1995, and that only to replace a friend's cassette that I had borrowed and lost. Later I found the cassette but didn't get into it too much until 1996. ) Finally I bought the CD for myself...once in Denver, once in CZ and ordered the deluxe version.

    As cute and clever as the lyric may be, its the music that sells the song for me. This is Crowded House's deepest, darkest foray into rhythm and blues in my opinion, and it's got that sort of party atmosphere in the rhythm, the jaunty melody; the drums sound fantastic and "90s", and the various percussion instruments and rhythm acoustic guitar, the sound effects all go together to make a very quirkly arty pop/rock song. It's got an incredible amount of hooks jammed tightly into it's 4 minute frame and it just rocks live, although after you've listened to fifteen different versions of it, it gets a little old.

    AS good as the studio version is, once the novelty of the lyric wears off, I kind of like the live versions best: especially the ones with Guthrie playing the extended wah-wah solo.
    It's just a lot of fun. Although after listening to 15 versions of it, as I did yesterday, I never want to hear it again.

    I suppose my favorite version is the Newcastle version, with "Rocky Raccoon"...this was the first live version I ever heard.

    Anyway this song is a definite 5/5 for me. I don't think I love this album as much as some of you (too long), but it certainly is chock full of awesome songs.
     
  10. PJayBe

    PJayBe Forum Resident

    Chocolate Cake. a definite 5 for me, can't stop smiling throughout the sing when it's on, very clever lyric and a neat musical accompaniment.
     
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  11. Aphoristical

    Aphoristical Aphoristic Album Reviews

    I don't think 'Chocolate Cake' fits. Would have been a very good b-side. Woodface is too long, and I'd cut 'Chocolate Cake'.
     
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  12. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    Chocolate Cake is among my least favorite songs from the first four albums. It was the first song I heard from the album and it didn't sit well with me. Upon first listen it seemed snide and not what I was hoping to hear. Individually it's parts are fine. The musicianship and production are excellent, and the singing is spirited. So why do I dislike this song? I think it goes back to the tone of the lyrics. I agree with what Neil and Tim are saying, but I don't find a 4 minute attack on anyone to be entertaining, rousing, or thought-provoking. It would have made a decent b-side or better still a live-only track that could be pulled out on rare occasions.

    I much preferred the CD single's b-sides and held out great hope for the rest of the record to be more like them. When Woodface appeared soon afterwards, I wasn't disappointed, I almost always start the album by skipping Chocolate Cake.

    1.5/5
     
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  13. D.B.

    D.B. Forum Resident

    That is such an incredible song, I'm glad that Tim was prominently involved with a classic album like Charcoal Lane. Thanks for posting the video for us...

    That line-up of music you listed the brothers being involved with during this period is really strong!
     
  14. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I see the lyric as kind of continuing the themes of Temple of Low Men, only now it's less vague and less open to interpretation. It's kind of like "Kill Eye", only distilled, intellectualized and humorous rather than emotionally anguished or angry.

    But yeah it was a hilariously bad choice to send it to pop radio. On the other hand, there's a kind of "novelty song" aspect to the production that makes it feel like it could have been a smash hit...in a different universe.
     
  15. Mooserfan

    Mooserfan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastern PA
    I blame Chocolate Cake for the downward slide of the band’s popularity in the United States. If there’s a song I truly can’t stand in their catalog, it’s this one. Bad enough when an attempt at humor fails, worse still when it’s mean spirited, snide and self-congratulatory. I have to say the music at least fits the lyric but for a Finn song, it’s as close to tuneless as they ever produced. And look at what a gem of an album this thing was taken from as the lead single! By the time they released the gorgeous Fall At Your Feet, pop radio in the States was done with them (not to mention Weather With You). They couldn’t buy airplay by that point (although perhaps someone did try that at Capitol). The song is misguided conceptually and a disaster as part of Woodface’s marketing strategy. I concur with BeSteVenn: 1.5/5
     
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  16. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    Not a bad song, but a poor choice of single.

    I'm not sure that I would cut it from the album, but it's not a standout track. It feels like an odd piece of whimsy to kick things off with when there are much better songs to come.

    3/5.
     
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  17. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    “Chocolate Cake” is such a problematic song to open the album and to release as the first singe. Yes, the music has an odd, infectious energy, Tim and Neil sing with verve and sound terrific together, and the production is layered with clever details. But I can’t get past the lyric. Unlike Lance, I don’t find it clever at all. I find it crude (“May his trousers fall down as he bows to the queen and the crown” is schoolboy-level stuff) and cruel (“Now the excess of fat on your American bones/Will cushion the impact as you sink like a stone”). The lyric shows disdain for at least a portion of its audience—I can pretty much guarantee that some portion of those who enjoyed the musicals of Andrew Lloyd Webber were also drawn to the sweeping sentimentality of “Don’t Dream It’s Over’s” music. When played live, the call-and-response of the chorus’s opening line (especially when performed in the US) invites a sense of smug, ironic superiority within the audience as they roar their desire for chocolate cake—“see, we’re not part of that crass culture.”


    The excesses of American culture are a ripe target for satire, but this is a remarkably ham-handed attempt. It continues to astonish me that anyone in a decisionmaking role could think that this would be an appropriate first single, especially in the US market. That the single failed dismally in the US is utterly unsurprising, and that failure no doubt contributed to “Woodface’s” poor sales in the US.


    I adore “Woodface” but dislike “Chocolate Cake,” so why do I listen to it when I play the album? Why don’t I just begin with the transcendent “It’s Only Natural”? Oddly, “Chocolate Cake” serves as a good lead-in to “It’s Only Natural”: the latter is enhanced by its positioning as a palate cleanser to wash away the bile of the former.


    2/5
     
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  18. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    When you are as stupid as I am, it's amazingly easy. :D
     
  19. dthomas850

    dthomas850 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Chocolate Cake
    I agree with others that the lyrics are very juvenile, but musically the song itself isn't that bad. Probably the weakest song on the album for me. What the hell were they thinking having this as the opening track? 3/5
     
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  20. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    <spinaltap>"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever."</spinaltap>
     
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  21. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    I once taught my young nephew to sing the "Can I have another piece of chocolate cake?" line. He was about three. My wife still uses it as her ringtone :)

    As for the song: it's one I have to be in the mood for. If it came on the radio, I'd crank the volume. If it came on my iPod, I'd skip it. That's mainly because I've heard it too much, but I was never especially fond of it, even back in the day.

    I like the lyric: as a non-American, I can easily and heartily laugh at the gag. I suspect that if a non-Brit poked fun at us, I might find it less funny. Hats off to those who can take it in the spirit in which it is intended.

    I was never a fan of it live because it just went on forever.

    I'll settle on giving this a 3/5 but that's with a margin of error of +/- 1 depending on mood.
     
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  22. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I forgot to mention This bit of trivia: that the “Here comes Mrs Hairy Legs” line was Pilfered from a song written by the then five-year-old Liam Finn.
     
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  23. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    I don’t find it offensive at all. Nothing wrong with a little schoolboy humour and attitude now and then. Most of us still have it, whether we want to admit it or not. This was their sense of humour so it’s nice to have it captured on record.

    The production is brilliant and the track is super catchy, one of their best pure hooks. Might have been wise to go with Fall At Your Feet for the American market but Chocolate Cake got a ton of video play up here. This is what began to get me into the band (I was too young for the first few records when they came out).

    4.5/5
     
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  24. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    I remember the excitement of "Chocolate Cake" being released as a single (around two weeks before the album), the first new music from the band in what then seemed like an eternity. I bought in on the day of release and liked it a lot initially and was happy when it got quite a lot of radio airplay here, far more than previous Crowded House songs. Woodface would also be the first CH album to chart in Sweden and they went from being basically unknown here to being talked about a lot. When they did come to Stockholm on the tour, their first gig in Sweden for more than five years, the venue was sold out so that was very good.

    This song has great energy, musically, and was always fun in concerts - for both the band and the audience. When they performed this song at their gig in Sweden in 1994, the Elvis reference was changed to an ABBA one: "I saw Bjorn and Benny walk out of 7-11 / And Frida and what's-the-other-girl's name, they came out soon after" and they also changed the line concerning American bones to "Now the excess of fat on your Swedish bones…".

    28 years later though, I find the intended humour, or satire, of the lyrics to have long worn off. As a piece of satire, it's only so-so in my opinion and if it's inspired by the headlines of magazines like National Enquirer (as the Finns have mentioned in various artists) it feels like a very safe and easy target to take a potshot at. I think the lyrics for "There Goes God" and "Fame Is" are also intended to be satirical and, well, I don't think satirical lyrics are really the strengths of either Finn brother.

    I think I can understand how the record company reasoned when choosing this as the first single off the album. The song had got a very positive audience reaction when performed live by the band in Australia in 1990, the chorus is easy to sing along to, it showcases the Finn brothers singing (as Tim joining the band was a big thing and something the media would write about, so I think all concerned wanted a Finn/Finn composition as the first single), it's uptempo, it can't be described as "melancholy" (a melancholy song might have been what the media and the radio stations were expecting from the band and no band ever want to be predictable) or "brooding", it showcases the band's humorous side and it gave them a chance to do an extravagant video that might get people's attention if shown on MTV. As it had been three years since the previous album and there had been very little media attention to the band in North America or Europe after that, I think the record company felt the first single needed to be something that would be very different, both from the band's previous work and from whatever else was being played on the radio at the time. It might also have caused a bigger controversy than it did and if you want to be cynical, I think most record companies would decide that any publicity is good publicity. Also, if it had taken off, they would have been in the good position of having many much stronger songs to release as the next single.

    I think the song also works well as the opening track, as it's uptempo and will surprise anyone who had heard Crowded House before and I agree with @jcr64 that it works very well leading into "It's Only Natural". "Chocolate Cake" is almost like a novelty song, not to be taken too seriously, and then the album really starts with "It's Only Natural".

    3,6/5.
     
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  25. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I have to say that I am pretty sensitive to anti-Americanism and this song never offended me.

    Maybe the "cushion the fat" line could be borderline offensive, but it's also perhaps the most nastily honest line of the whole song; but overall think it's just more about the madness of American pop culture, the sheer amount of trash that's on offer there.

    Yes, the National Enquirer and the Weekly World News and so on. All countries have this kind of trash culture as far as I can see, but there really is just so much more of it there,, it's so advanced; or at least that was the case 30 years ago when this song was written.

    Nowadays, with the Internet, all places are becoming the same and trash culture is everywhere. Yet the USA and Hollywood is still the spiritual center for that, even as Hollywood also provides actual great stuff alongside the tripe

    I have always tried to explain why Americans are ignorant to other nationalities as being a byproduct of the culture: in the US, as opposed to where I am, it's absolutely easy to go around with no knowledge of the rest of the world: you can sink yourself in celebrity news and fluffy nonsense with ease there.

    Finding out about what's going on in the serious, real world actually takes a bit of work there: you have to look for that stuff.

    People from smaller countries tend to be more self-conscious about their place in the world. They are constantly reminded that there are other countries, bigger ones, more powerful ones, richer ones, ones that have more music, whatever. They can't help but be aware of the rest of the world. I live less than an hour's drive from two different countries; the country I live in is export-driven economy, it's too small to have a self-sufficient market, as the USA could if it needed to.

    So everybody's jobs is in these companies that produce for other countries, which means that some of them are in contact with foreigners every single day. In the USA, we are in contact with foreigners, but they are nearly all immigrants, which is just a different dynamic.

    For these people, like the Fins, the incredible amount of sheer nonsense in American pop culture, which is 24-7, non-stop, almost inescapable, coupled with the obvious gluttony of the oversized portions and the whole culture of food, -- which has only gotten worse --- must have seemed like being on an alien planet: funny, yet horrible. This song was also written at the tail end of a decade in which greed (and its byproduct gluttony) was openly celebrated. The Finns are Catholic: not only is it silly, disgusting, horrific and fascinating: it's also something they instinctively see as sinful.

    To make it more complex, they were trying pretty desperately hard to be a part of it all.
    The Finns had spent quite a lot of time immersed in that culture, particularly Neil but Tim, too. Imagine growing up in a small town in New Zealand and then finding yourself all grown up in LA, close to the center of an utterly absurd pop culture...now imagine yourself trying REALLLY hard to ingratiate yourself into that absurd pop culture, even though it kind of disgusts you. It also kind of fascinates you...and then imagine that it basically spits you out.
    I mean, that's where the undercurrent of anger comes from.

    I like the lyric and I regard it as coming from someplace complex and real from the Finns. I've never heard them say anyting particularly anti-American: it's clear that they have friends in the USA and have worked with and loved many Americans. Nick was married to an American; Mark Hart and Mitchell Froom are Americans.

    Their send up of pop culture and the seedier aspects of American culture heralds the beginning of the ironic nineties when American culture actually finally began to be able to look at its own ridiculousness and be aware of it, and even try, in some quarters to curb its excesses. OK< by the end of the decade, that self-awareness had largely gone away again from pop culture, but I think this song was just right for it's time, maybe even a bit ahead of its time. The disgust and amusement the Finn's felt was correct: I felt the same thing at the time and so did many others of my generation, I think.
    Woodface is exactly where the 80s meet the 90s.

    It works for me.

    Typing on the fly, sorry for typos, etc, repeated lines or whatever else no time to proofread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
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