Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. DonnieT

    DonnieT Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta
    One thing that I have noticed recently is, if I pick my favorite ten albums of all time (ranking Woodface at #4) a common trait that all of them share is that they are all easily capable of taking me on an emotional journey. Each one, in the length of one play, can make me sing, dance, think, smile and cry. After the posts on this thread, I am happy to see that many others feel this way about Woodface too.
     
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  2. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for Woodface:

    1-0
    2-0
    3-0
    4-1
    5-11
    Average: 4.8033
     
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  3. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today's song is "I'm Still Here", written by Paul Hester, Neil Finn and Nick Seymour. Lead vocals are by Paul Hester.

    Spotify: I'm Still Here - Full Version


    The song was originally a hidden track at the end of Woodface and faded out after about a minute. A full-length remix was released on the 2016 Woodface reissue. The song was recorded in a wild party of a session, apparently with many friends present and adding their voices to the recording; and the Bourke book describes it ending with Paul Hester lying on the floor playing guitar and singing.

    The song was performed live by Crowded House a few times. One version is below.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  4. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    "I'm Still Here" starts at about 4.32. Neil takes over drums at some point. Great performance!

     
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  5. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    "I'm Still Here" is a pretty funny song as a hidden track. I never really minded it at the end of Woodface; however, hidden tracks are annoying for mixed compilations, playlists etc...And the joke, like most jokes, does get old.

    Nowadays it's easy enough to edit it out or separate it if you wish.

    As a song, of course, it's hard to take seriously: it's not trying to be a great work of art or something poignant. It's trying to capture lightning in a bottle: the elusive wild energy of the live show, a band on the edge, making it up as they go along but playing with such keen sensitivity to the others that it works.

    I'm glad that the band did this and releasing the full-length remix was a nice touch. Paul's not still here of course, but I quite like the idea of him popping up and annoying people for eternity after the sweet and salty bliss of "How Will You Go."

    3.5 for the hidden track, 2.4 for the full-length version.
     
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  6. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    "I still wanna get laid!!!!" = why every boy dreams of becoming a successful rock musician.

    Hard to rate this one as it's not a real song....

    It was a nice touch on the original album, providing a moment of levity after the somber final two proper cuts on the LP. I didn't always want to hear it, however, and I grew to wish that it had been given its own track number on the CD so that I wouldn't have to play it. I remember using the 'stop' button on my CD player remote just to avoid hearing "I'm Still Here" after playing the rest of the album. It's interesting to hear the complete take as released as a bonus track on the Woodface Deluxe Edition, but they were right to use the edit on the original album. 1:15 is just right; the extra 1:04 seems to take an eternity to get through after you've heard it once or twice.

    This trend of including hidden tracks after a bit of silence at the end of CDs was really just starting at the time Woodface was released. The one that really took me by surprise (as intended, I'm sure) was the one at the end of Nirvana's Nevermind. The first time I played that disc, probably just a few months after I bought Woodface, was in my apartment and I was in the kitchen making dinner while the last song or two on the album played. There was about 15 minutes of silence on the disc and then came the abrasive "Endless Nameless". As I was in the other room and out of sight of my stereo, I had no idea that the disc was still playing. I almost dropped the hot skillet on my foot from being startled by the sudden noise of the hidden track starting up. The hidden track trend grew annoying over the years and thankfully seems to have finally mostly died out with the advent of album downloads and the iTunes Store in the mid 2000s.

    3.2 for the album edit; 2.7 for the full version.
     
  7. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    And that is why this little band from New Zealand and Australia, with their obscure lyrics and everyday-Joe image made a big impact internationally despite continuously failing to live up to commercial expectations. Though I must say that I think Chris Bourke's book focuses too much on their disappointment with their US success. In fact, in their home countries, they were consistently very popular. Correct?
     
  8. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    Hi Everyone, very late to the discussion so apologies.
    Long time fan from Australia and was a life member of the Fan Club which sadly is no more but I joined at the right time to take full advantage of the club cd’s ,videos and DVD’s which I treasure very much.

    My score for Woodface is 5/5
    It was the first crowded House album I fell in love with and that was because of the Tim
    Finn album which is another 5/5 for me .

    I’m still here is ok but to be honest I find it annoying after the beauty of She Goes on and How Will You Go it kind of ruins the atmosphere of the album for me so I always turn it off straight after How Will You Go .

    looking forward to the discussion ahead .
     
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  9. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Yes, indeed; and in bigger markets than Australia New Zealand; but Bourke focuses on that angle because the American angle is crucially important to the band's story in general:

    1. Capitol (an American company) were their main invsestors by FAR, meaning the band owed them money. WE don't have numbers, but I doubt if Aus/NZ sales alone were enough to pay off any advances, etc that were made.
    2. They also earned more money from American sales, especially compared to Europe where they earned a mere pittance, even though they ended up selling the most there.
    3. Even a minor chart showing in the US meant more records sold, more people at concerts, etc: The "failure"Woodface sold more copies in the US (300 000+) than it did in almost any other country except the UK. This is just due to the size of the market.
    4. All these above points encouraged them to focus on the American market, where it never really happened, other than the fluke at the beginning of their career --which felt so good it was like a drug high they kept chasing to diminishing returns.
    5. The concentration on the American market was one of the things that embittered Paul and led to his leaving the band (along with creative frustration), which resulted in their breakup.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  10. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    Lance is certainly spot on with the points he has mentioned re chasing US success for subsequent albums after the debut.

    With regards to Australia the 1st 3 albums were hugely successful but they were all backed up by very strong promotional campaigns with lots of TV appearances and touring .
    That all changed with Together Alone as the album was released in Aust/NZ at the same time as the UK and Europe and management and EMI obviously wanted the band on the ground for the release there so when the album came out in Aust the band were nowhere to be seen and Together Alone suffered in Australia as a result.
    I got a couple of video tapes at the time from a fan from the UK and I was stunned by the level of promotion they did .
    In Australia they did just 2 tv appearances on Take 40 Aust which was on a weekend in the afternoon so hardly prime time .
     
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  11. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Pretty interesting info.
     
  12. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    It also suffered in the States due to delayed release - Together Alone was released on October 11, 1993 in Europe / Australia / New Zealand, but in North America it wasn't released until January 11, 1994. I was on the mailing list at the time and it caused a lot of discussion - many American fans bought imports before it was released in the States.

    I agree that there has been too much focus on Crowded House not being super successful in the States and as Lance pointed out, even Woodface, considered a flop in the States, sold more than 300 000 copies. It's the same with Temple of Low Men which is often described as a commercial failure - though it was #1 and multi-platinum in Australia, #2 and platinum in New Zealand, top-10 and platinum in Canada, sold more than 500 000 copies (gold) in the States and so on. Lots of groups and artists would love to experience such "commercial failure". The first four Crowded House albums all sold gold or platinum in Canada, but their success there is barely touched upon in Chris Bourke's book.

    It also disturbs me when it is said that Split Enz weren't commercially successful in the '80s, by which it often means that True Colours "only" went top-40 in the States and in the U.K. (though it was #1 for several weeks in Australia and New Zealand and top-10 in Canada). Given the thousands and thousands of records released every week in the States, reaching top-40 is not a failure. Waiata went top-50 in the States, reached #1 in Australia and New Zealand and #17 in Canada; Time and Tide again reached #1 in Australia and New Zealand and top-5 in Canada.

    I guess if the comparison is between Crowded House and, say, U2, REM and Bruce Springsteen, then yes, they weren't as successful but compared to most bands they were hugely successful.

    One thing that is a bit interesting is that we music fans correctly assume that the U.S. is the world's biggest market for artists, but incorrectly assumes that the U.K. is the second biggest market. That is not correct - Germany and Japan are bigger markets (though the U.K. market is usually considered to be more prestigious than Germany or Japan by artists). All Crowded House albums charted in Germany so that must mean they sold a lot of records there.

    Having said that, I read somewhere that the first Crowded House album sold more copies in the States than all Split Enz albums put together.
     
  13. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    Yes have no doubt Together Alone suffered in the US and Canada due to the delayed release.
    I was in the US in late 93 and I remember Tower on Sunset having heaps of copies of Together Alone imported from the UK .

    So when the album was eventually released in the US it was deprived from all the sales from hardcore fans which certainly helps with the charts for the 1st couple of weeks .
     
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  14. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Very interesting. Imagine how frustrating that must have been for American fans! I was only a casual fan at the time. In summer 1994 I remember hearing "Distant Sun" a lot on the radio; unfortunately, it seems that was just when Paul was leaving the band.

    WE are a little ahead, (Before and After doesn't start for another ten or eleven days, and then it will be probably nearly three weeks until Together Alone) but the Bourke books sure makes it sound that the main reason for it suffering in the States was a the fact that Gersh, who had taken over Capitol Records (who preferred aggressive music, having discovered Nine Inch Nails) was not behind it and Neil just felt he couldn't tweak the album in such a way as to please him.

    They make it sound like Capitol gave it no push whatsoever, because they felt that the core audience had dwindled to 250 000 and that it wasn't going to capture more fans without a big hit single, which they didn't hear. (Correctly.) Maybe @factory44 will have some memories about how heavy Capitol pushed Together Alone compared to Woodface.

    Maybe this is why those outtakes like "Newcastle Jam", and "Convent Girls", even "Zen Roxy" which to me sound a bit more in step with what was selling at least a little might have made Together Alone go over better with Gersh, but there's also this intimation that he just wanted his fingerprints on the record and he wasn't going to get excited unless that happened but Neil just couldn't play ball and do another Woodface. (i.e., record a whole 'nother album). Especially when the UK company was ecstatic about Together Alone.

    IN my opinion, this kind of music just wasn't in in the USA, and, I've said it before, I think Crowded House was tarnished with a sort of "soft rock, Phil Collins-lite" brush in the USA that still hasn't worn off for the general public. They just weren't cool, somehow. I think that only Nick really understood that. The humour which

    I think they made the right decision to promote it hard in the UK, even in hindsight. Because I don't think the music scene in 1994 in the states really was right for Crowded House. "Locked Out" and "Distant Sun" did get a lot more radio play in my world than anything off Woodface had, though...but that was because alternative radio had really risen since Woodface.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  15. Jaffaman

    Jaffaman Senior Member

    I'm still here.
     
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  16. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    Capitol's poor level of promotion for Together Alone in the States was also much discussed on the mailing list back in the day, the general opinion being that Capitol could and should have done so much more. I think the band comments in Chris Bourke's book how disappointing it was when they were on the U.S. tour, with Sheryl Crow as the support act, that their records were barely in the stores, while the same stores had posters for Sheryl Crow and her records prominently on view. I remember a funny quip on the mailing list by Marck, one of the administrators, "If there really is a Second Coming, Jesus better not sign a deal with Capitol Records."

    The other side of the coin may be Crowded House's own commitment to continuing to be very successful in the States. After Temple of Low Men was released, a big tour in the States was planned for the final months of 1988 but was cancelled as the band members felt it was more important to get their private lives in order. I think that was a correct priority for the band members and admire them for having the courage to do this, but no doubt a lot of concert promoters were really pissed off and that may have seriously harmed the band's long-term prospectives in the States. Someone on the mailing list back in 1994 commented on the fact that the U.S. tour was from March to May 1994 but that other bands - such as U2 - would tour the States for a year if necessary. If Capitol in 1994 had said to the band, "OK, we'll give you the big promotional push - if you commit to doing 6 months of touring the States" - would the band have agreed to that, or were they deep down content with their level of popularity in the States at this time?
     
  17. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    Yes your right Lance we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves but the Before and After ,Together Alone period is fascinating and will no doubt be the subject of some good discussion
    We also have in March 93 Split Enz Anniversary tour of NZ (which yielded the Celebration CD in 94 ) which has been said is the best tour the ENZ have ever done and I would certainly agree with that so hopefully we discuss that as well .

    Agree with your comments re the UK being a priority as the success of Woodface there was unexpected and came just in time .
    I actually think without that UK success Together Alone night not have happened.
     
  18. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    Re the US , there was a fairly decent promotional push by the band as they did quite a few prime time TV appearances on the initial promo tour and again when they came back for the tour proper .
    Capitol did manage to get Locked Out on the Reality Bites soundtrack which stared Wynona Ryder but that obviously did not do much to help as ironically the big song from that was My Sharona .
    In Canada they did the brilliant Much Music live and interactive show which even though Paul was not in the best of moods the band deliver an awesome performance .
     
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  19. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Definitely, one day for Anniversary before Before and After. Completely forgot about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  20. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    "I'm Still Here" is quite fun and was a big surprise the first time I listened to Woodface. At first I wondered if there was some technical glitch with my CD, if perhaps some other band's recording had ended up on the CD by mistake. Of course, once you've heard it once, the surprise aspect is gone. Still a fun example of Paul's and the band's humour though. Hidden extra tracks were par for the course in the early '90s and many other groups did have "real" tracks (or perhaps an unplugged version of one of their serious songs) and it's true Crowded House humour to send that up and do this odd piece of music instead. (Regarding hidden extra tracks, I think I have a CD where the group went in the other direction and placed the hidden extra track before the album's first track, so you had to rewind manually to hear it. Don't know how it worked if you put the CD on repeat and I can't remember right now which CD it was).
    The full length version on the deluxe edition is a nice curiosity to have, but just like Split Enz's "Livin' It Up" it's not a song I really enjoy listening to all that much as a piece of music.
    2,8/5
     
  21. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Factory Showroom, by They Might Be Giants? (1996)
     
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  22. Djmover

    Djmover Forum Resident

    That’s ok Lance re forgetting Anniversary as it is impossible to remember everything.
    The beauty of this is we all fill in each other’s gaps in knowledge.
    I have learnt a lot myself from scrolling back in this thread so thank you so much for starting it.
     
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  23. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    I hate “I’m Still Here.” I don’t use that word lightly. I despise it. Yes, the first time I listened to the album, it was mildly amusing — you think the album is over, but nope, they’re still there. Every subsequent listen, though, has simply emphasized the song’s in-your-face obnoxiousness. “I’m here to rain on your parade”? What the hell? It’s you yourselves, Crowded House, who have put me in this wonderful, contemplative mood, carried there by the beauty of the music and the mood of the lyrics. Don’t f-ing piss on your own work.

    Hidden tracks can work wonderfully. “Her Majesty” was originally a hidden track, not listed on either the label or the jacket on the first pressing of “Abbey Road,” and, yes, it does gently puncture the sweeping grandiosity of “The End,” but it does so in a sweet, gentle, mildly amusing, tuneful manner. My favorite example (and this one is rather obscure) comes from Bob Evans’s best album, “Suburban Songbook” (“Bob” (Kevin Mitchell) and I are related by marriage, though we’ve never met). The album ends, there’s an extended pause, and then there’s this lovely little song, short but fully formed, about bar-hopping and friendship that rounds out the album in a way that the “official” final track doesn’t.

    By contrast, “I’m Still Here” forthrightly tries to undo what has gone before, when what has gone before is a jewel of an album. It is a remarkable piece of self-sabotage. If I could erase one Crowded House song from existence, it would be this one.

    1/5
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  24. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    I never regarded I'm Still Here as a "real" part of Woodface, I let it remain hidden. I do credit the song for my paying close attention to the music (instead of just getting lost in the music) and starting the album over again (at track 2). 2/5 for both versions.
     
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  25. audiomac

    audiomac Forum Resident

    I'm Still Here

    2/5
     
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