Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. AB40

    AB40 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    The 'horn' sound has been treated so much, I couldn't even begin to guess what it is: vintage analog synth, modern digital synth or mid-century Electromechanical keyboard? Particularly as Neil seems to have access to other Vintage Gear, such as the Optigan, which has turned up in a few of his songs over the years. Sound familiar?

    Optigan

    Here's the 'Black and White Boy' guitar on the Chamberlin. I play with three of the four descents in the track, but I can't remember which one I didn't play. *shrug* All they've done is put some echo and tremolo on the album part.

    https://soundcloud.com/user261721536/chamberlin

    To the user who said 'how could anyone not tell the difference between Chamberlin and real instruments' I guess it depends on how closely you're paying attention. A lot of listeners don't mentally-strip down a track to its component parts the way a musician or serious listener might. For example: I was listening to an album from 2004 I loved the other day, and noticed this for the first time. 2:30 - Chamberlin Cello and Violins. 3:19 - Real string quartet. Huh. That's from a good 11 years of playing the instrument under my belt to be able to instantly-recognise the tone of the Chamberlin Cello. Note also, the Mellotron and Chamberlin use the same Violin recordings - there's a bit of a wobble on the A under middle C specific across both instruments.



    A tip, if you work with string players and are in a pinch due to a Cello player canceling or not being up to scratch. Most listeners can't distinguish between Cello and Cellfaux: get the viola player to play the cello line, then drop the recording an octave or reamp the track whilst using a guitar pitch shift pedal.
     
  2. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    You're absolutely right that the ear can be tricked. Combining at least one live string with synth strings usually works. You can also get away with a lot of other things if mixed/treated well and combined with the real thing. Recently I faked a bari sax and a flute on a track. They were pretty buried in the mix and were surrounded by very organic elements.

    In the case of Black & White Boy, I wonder why they chose to do that and not simply have Mark or Neil play it.
     
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  3. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    Catherine Wheels is a brilliant song, but I don't care much for the funky instrumental bit. I spent a couple of hours several years ago trying to create an edit without that part and could not make it work.

    Sorry Nick, I love what you bring to Crowded House, but not what you brought to this song. What would have been a 5/5 gets dragged down to a 4.5/5.
     
  4. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    I'm up against a major work deadline, but I've managed to skim today's contributions, and I wanted to chime in briefly. I admire much about "Catherine Wheels" (for reasons that have been explored well today). And it's definitely a grower--I actively disliked it when I first heard it, but it's grown considerably in my estimation. That said, it's not at the top rank of Finn songs for me. I'm not sure why. It's not that the subject is difficult or that the verse melody is not instantly appealing--one of my favorite Paul Simon songs is "Cool, Cool River" from Rhythm of the Saints, and, as Neil might say, try whistling that. But it hasn't worked its way into my soul, and that's what's required for a 5 from me. Given the praise lavished on the song, I feel a bit defensive about giving the song "only" a 4/5, but that's where I am.
     
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  5. AB40

    AB40 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Hmm, '92-'93. Given the simplistic-but-ingratiating nature of the hook and the tremolo effect, perhaps it was a cheap-and-cheerful Baritone Guitar substitute, after the 'Twin Peaks' theme.

    It's easy enough to play on guitar, but the ringing strings create a more chordal effect, rather than the quick dampening the Baritone would provide.

    Who can say, really?
     
  6. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Maybe she put roller skates on.
     
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  7. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for "Catherine Wheels"

    1-0
    2-0
    3-1
    4-5
    5-14
    Average: 4.6275
     
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  8. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today's song is "Skin Feeling" written by Paul Hester. The lead vocal is by Paul with Mark Hart supplying the spoken word bits.

    Spotify: Skin Feeling

    "Skin Feeling" was released as a B-side to the Fingers Of Love release. A live version was released on only one fanclub album, if I'm not mistaken: the collection of "live rarities", Home Brew.
     
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  9. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Here's the Largest Living Things doing the song live in 1997.
     
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  10. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    When were talking about "Remember and Forget", I wrote that to me the groove of "Remember and Forget" really reminded me of"Skin Feeling." (They were probably recorded at around the same time, so I"m not really accusing either of plagiarism.)

    Yesterday I read someone comparing "Skin Feeling" to "Until the End of the World" by U2, going so far as calling them essentially the same song and I can really hear that. Even the lead guitar....And I realize that both "Remember and Forget" and "Skin Feeling" have that sort of Achtung Baby rhythm in common and when we were listening to R&F that was tickling in my mind. The overt grunginess of the backing track of the former and the more rhythm-and-blues-based track here kind of obscure the heavy influence of then-contemporary U2 who were just gigantic at that time (with good reason.)

    I'm never been quite sure about the lyric: is it about midlife crisis? Chasing after young "skin"? There's something grim and dark about the song in comparison with the other songs we've discussed from Paul: this has a slight punky disturbance factor, like "This is Massive." I suppose I think that the words are just lines strung together, Neil style that evoke something -- and they do, but are about nothing in particular.

    Altogether it's a rather odd song in Crowded House's catalogue: it really rocks differently than any of their other stuff, it's a really different rhythm. I've grown to like Paul's solo stuff, and this sounds more like the Largest Living Things than Paul Hester solo or than Crowded House. And is that Neil playing that wailing lead guitar (which does sound like the intro guitar from "Until the End of the World"?) Or is it Paul himself? It has such a different feel than anything else I've heard from these guys.

    I really enjoy Mark's weird cowboy-like spoken word intervals, too. It turns an odd song I enjoy into something truly weird and actually kind of great -- it's a hook in and of itself.

    I know this is gonna be dinged and I will agree that it definitely sticks out on this album; not having it would have made an album that is basically flawless work of multi-colored melodic splendour. But sometimes you need a flaw to make something appear truly perfect and multi-faceted and there's a restless, dark, cranky pounding energy about this that I just love. I feel like this song really illustrates an unexplored punky underside of the band. I like the sound of those drums: I like the way they hurt me.

    4.1/5
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
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  11. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I disagree with you about "Catherine Wheels", but not about "The Cool, Cool River", which is a work of songwriting genius. It's my favorite Paul Simon song.
     
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  12. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    "Skin Feeling". Hmmm.

    I don't really like it that much, but I wouldn't particularly mind it if it didn't come in between "Catherine Wheels" and "Together Alone". Although the sequencing of Together Alone is mostly brilliant, placing "Skin Feeling" at this spot in the album running order was a huge mistake. I mean, it was always going to stand out somewhat, being a Paul Hester composition, but I feel as though it stands out more here than it would have had it followed "Black and White Boy", for example. Or "Locked Out", given that the transition from that song into "Private Universe" is the album's only other sequencing mistake (although going from "Skin Feeling" into "Private Universe" would arguably be even worse...).

    I don't think "Skin Feeling" is the worst song on the album (that honor going to "Black and White Boy"), but it just doesn't work for me. The only part of the song I like is the guitar solo, which gives off a hazy early 70s Rolling Stones vibe, a la Sticky Fingers. I'm sure that there were good reasons to place this song on the album in place of far superior outtakes like "I Am In Love" and "You Can Touch", mostly to placate Paul and provide him with songwriting royalties, but the album does suffer for the decision. This isn't a song that is nearly of the quality of "Italian Plastic", which helped to make Woodface so great. It being another rocker, the production ethos of Together Alone doesn't do "Skin Feeling" any favors either, with that boomy low end dominating the sound.

    I'll rate it as a stand alone track, but my rating would be lower if I were to consider it in the context of the album's running order.

    3.2/5
     
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  13. Otis82

    Otis82 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Wow, those are exactly my thoughts about “Skin Feeling”, robcar.

    Examining the liner notes -again, pre-Frenz Forum, pre-Chris Bourke’s SSS- I suspected Neil was going for a more democratic process in the studio, sharing several writing credits with the other band members. “Skin Feeling”’s addition should be viewed in that regard.

    Bad sequencing, decent song. ++ for putting Mark Hart behind a microphone, having him improvise and actually keeping his contributions.

    3.2 / 5
     
  14. Ostinato

    Ostinato Old and wise

    LOL yeah but no. Andante, good sir. Btw if you like Mozart at all, go and listen to it. It' may well be the most sad and desolate thing he ever wrote.



    Sorry for Off-Topic banter. Back to Crowded House.
     
  15. Ostinato

    Ostinato Old and wise

    Skin Feeling. I'm just not a fan of Paul's songwriting. I hated Italian Plastic and Skin Feeling isn't making things any better. It just doesn't sound like Crowded House to me. Sorry, Paul.

    2.5/5
     
  16. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    I actually think the sequencing of both "Locked Out" and "Skin Feeling" is superb. Both songs serve as a bridge between songs that to me wouldn't fit so nicely if high energy rockers "Locked Out" and "Skin Feeling" weren't there, building up contrasts to the ones that follow them ("Private Universe" and "Together Alone" respectively). I like both "Locked Out" and "Skin Feeling" better as album tracks, sequenced where they are, than as stand-alone tracks.

    "Skin Feeling" to my ears is a song that is somehow bigger than the sum of its parts. Mark Hart's quite bizarre megaphone improvisations about what he likes gives the song a unique energy and blends well with Paul's vocals and seemingly stream-of-consciousness lyrics. The verse is a bit so-so, but I think the chorus is really good.
    One thing that struck me now, when I listened to "Skin Feeling" both as a stand-alone track and as a bridge between "Catherine Wheels" and "Together Alone", is the backing track, which I think is just awful. It sounds like a Lenny Kravitz B-side reject. The Largest Living Things version is much better I think, less abrasive. This is what I hear when I just listen to "Skin Feeling" (the CH version) on its own, but when I first hear the five minutes of beauty that is "Catherine Wheels", "Skin Feeling" works much better and builds up an energy and a tension that is released when the sombre "Together Alone" starts.

    All in all, I think the CH version of "Skin Feeling" only really works within its context, but there it does work very well for me, so I'll give it 3,7/5.
     
  17. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    This is what I was getting at in my comments about "Skin Feeling", but you verbalised it much better than I did. I agree completely with the above.
     
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  18. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    I agree with those who say Skin Feeling is better in the context of the album than it is as a stand alone song. Once again, you need a break between two very emotionally intense songs.

    As for the song itself, the verses don’t do anything for me either musically or lyrically, and if judging on the verses alone, I would say I dislike the song. But then the unexpectedly great chorus comes along and totally saves the song. The guitar solo is pretty great too. I don’t really get the similarity to the U2 song that a couple of you are hearing(?).

    3/5
     
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  19. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Well, I don't want to belabor it, but I think the beginning of the song does kind of sound like "Until the End of the World" and the groove throughout is very similar...not only to that one but really several U2 songs from that era. My point was, though, that I definitely also hear a similarity in groove between this and the "Remember and Forget" song by Tim Finn from I Like It Rare 4 (or whichever one it was on) and speculating that both songs might have been influenced by U2's work. I wouldn't go so far as to say either song is a rip off, they've certainly got very different melodies (U2's is better) it's mainly just the sort of structure and groove and maybe a sort of dark feel that is similar.
     
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  20. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    That is an understatement, on both points. :D

    I went back and listened to the U2 song, which I hadn’t heard in many years. Hmmmm.....maybe. I think it's a real stretch to say they are similar. I have to force myself to really hear it. But that’s okay, I have songs that remind me of other songs and others don’t hear it.
     
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  21. therunner

    therunner Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    I really wish I could find something positive to say about "Skin Feeling" because I like Hessie's drumming and his humour on-stage, but his songwriting just does nothing for me. I agree with others who have said the best thing about it is its position on the album to act as a bridge of energy between "Catherine Wheels" and "Together Alone" but I think either "You Can Touch" or "Convent Girls" would do that, and both are better songs.

    2/5 (it would be 1/5 but "My Telly's Gone Bung" is still to come)
     
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  22. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Hate to crush your dreams, but we did "My Telly's Gone Bung" already, in the batch of 1989 "Nickless" songs, before we did Southern Cross by Phil Manzanera. It got 2.685.
     
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  23. therunner

    therunner Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Damn...now I've only got "Kiss The Road Of Rarotonga" to look forward to dumping on :)
     
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  24. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Blashphemy! I can think of a few worse than that, personally. "Family Ties", springs to mind or that really annoying one from Dizzy Heights, you know the one I'm talking about. I don't even have to name it.
    But I don't want to spoil the fun.
     
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  25. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    Skin Feeling has something oddly compelling about it and is the height of the duality of Together Alone. Along with In Your Command, Black And White Boy, and Locked Out, it serves as a contrast to the beauty of Kare Kare, Nails In My Feet, Fingers Of Love, Pineapple Head, Private Universe, Walking On The Spot, and what's coming next. Following Catherine Wheel, where he gives a bit of control over to Tim and Nick, It's Neil allowing the rest of the band and Youth to go completely amok.

    I like it a lot. 4.3/5
     

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