Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    The rerecorded version fron 1981 is here:

     
  2. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    First of all the mournful piano composition that Tim has built his song around is beautiful. It's also familiar: there are echoes of it in "Poor Boy" from 1980, "Carve You In Marble" from 1986 and "I Decided to Fly" from 1995. All of them differ slightly, but there is a very similar feel to them. It's a lovely piece.

    The lyrics are written from the point of view of an indigenous people whose culture has been partially destroyed by colonizing Westerners. The music is appropriately mournful and beautiful, with a sad, rainy-day feeling about it, reinforced by the percussion on the single version -- really the percussion on both versions. It's one of my favorite Split Enz songs, despite its obscurity and I give it a big 5/5.

    I must say, however, that this song more than many, really suffers from limited and loud mastering on the Rootin' Tootin' Luton Tapes. The sound doesn't bother me quite as much on the rockers and ravers: knowing that the songs were recorded in a reputably tiny studio/house, with members jammed up against each other, the compressed sound mostly helps to envision that when listening. But this song really needs the empty space of proper mastering job and for this reason I greatly prefer the single version.

    The RTLT version is otherwise nice, with a fine piano/vocal performance from Tim and some interesting distorted guitar/synth dissonance in the background, and understated and treated drums/percussion, that add to the gloomy mood of the whole thing.

    But you can't keep a good song down. It's still great.
     
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  3. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    "Remember When" is a sad-sounding track, but one that is also quite beautiful I think. The piano has a bit of a saloon-hall sound to it and there's a shuffling rhythm underpinning the song that almost sounds like a train moving down the tracks. I like this one. This original Luton version was unreleased until the RTLT compilation; I don't remember liking the 1983 re-recording that was included as one of the b-sides on the "Next Exit" single as much as this version.

    (By the way, the version of "Next Exit" that was released as a stand-alone single in 1983 was also a new recording; the original Luton version of "Next Exit" had been released a year earlier on the 1982 Various Artists' compilation More Hits and Myths and then was also included, remixed, on the second disc of RTLT in 2007.)
     
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  4. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I didn't know what the song was about, so thanks for that information. It adds to its power, and hearing the 1983 version right afterward, I agree with you about the problematic mastering of the RTLT release. I still prefer the 1978 Luton recording as the backing vocals aren't there and the rhythm is a bit more understated. The ending is also more dissonant and disturbing on the original version. The later version sounds a bit too pristine in comparison. Of course, most people would only have been familiar with the 1983 version for 25 years until the Luton recording was issued.

    I forgot my rating in my last post: 4.2 (and 4.0 for the 1983 b-side version).
     
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  5. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Ah, this explains the discrepancy on the discography that lists it at 1983. I thought the version of "Next Exit" on the the MOre Hits and Myths, was the rerecorded version.

    Both (rerecorded) songs were also on the Rear Enz compilation from the 90s box set, which is where I encountered it first.
     
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  6. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Lyrics:
    Remember when, we were discovered
    A race of men, a blaze of colour
    Upon the beach we watched you sailing in

    We used to break our way through forests
    The crashing fern, the joyful chorus
    A tribe of men, do you remember when?

    Remember when, Remember when, Remember when...
    Remember when...

    Remember when, we could walk on water
    Intrepid then, you make us falter
    Without your creeds, we live by deed alone.

    We used to break our way through forests
    The crashing fern, the joyful chorus
    A tribe of men, do you remember when?
     
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  7. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Another fan of Remember When, but I also prefer the remake. Whether that's to do with the performance or the mastering, I can't say. 4/5
     
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  8. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    It's definitely confusing. I'm not sure when the More Hits and Myths compilation was actually released -- I've seen both 1981 and 1982 dates in different places. But it definitely came before the 1983 "Next Exit" single and included the Luton version of that song. Not sure why they decided to re-record an old track that had appeared on a compilation just a year or two earlier. I think the single came out in between Time and Tide and Conflicting Emotions.
     
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  9. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Well, as to why they re-recorded "Next Exit", I guess that the rerecorded version is more "produced"and slick, with a nice fashionable gated drum sound, and would have been more radio-friendly in 1983. Also Mal Green had left, so maybe that was part of it, too.
     
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  10. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    A strong 3/5.

    Moving and atmospheric.
     
  11. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    No score for me - I can't explain why, but I just have no opinion of this song...

    Liam Finn's "Remember When" is a great song, though! :)
     
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  12. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our ratings for "Remember When"

    1-0
    2-0
    3-1
    4-2
    5-1
     
  13. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today we'll talk about The Rootin' Tootin' Luton Tapes as an album proper.

    A few notes though: this was released as an album in 2007 after decades of legendary status. What we've listened to here is just a little over half of the album: the other half was released to fan-club members only, and consisted of many songs that were released on the Enz' next album, Frenzy.

    As a result, the album is technically only half of a double CD: and the songs on the album were technically all outtakes in a very fertile period for the band. Some of them ended up as B-sides, as we've seen; others ended up on a North American reconfiguration of Frenzy; and two ("Remember When" and "Next Exit", which we'll talk about tomorrow) were re-recorded and released as a stand-alone single.

    It is not my intention to talk about fan club only releases, nor about the many demos that might exist on neilfinn.com or elsewhere.

    I'm going to make an exception for this album and talk about a few songs on disc 2 as bonus tracks; but the great majority of them we will discuss when we discuss Frenzy, in a few day's time.

    Regarding fan-club releases, references to them and links (where applicable) to individual songs are more than welcome! It's just that I won't be making separate posts for those.
     
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  14. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Despite the fact that the Rootin Tootin' Luton Tapes (I hate the title) were rejects by the band in this fertile period, I think that it is one of their best albums. Many references in this thread have been made about the album's "edge" and "energy". It seems that on many of the songs, members of the band did not really know them that well and were flying by the seat of their pants or "blagging it" as Nigel Griggs put it.

    It's that spirit that gives the songs their edge and it's hard indeed to replicate that in a big fancy studio where a band must be cognizant of time and money.

    I mentioned Bob Dylan above: Bob has been recording records and playing shows with backing bands who have no idea what song he's going to play or what key or tempo it will be in for decades in an attempt to capture this edge, and as we see from his career, sometimes it works spectactularly, sometimes it doesn't. Here it works.

    To me the RTLT represent some of the greatest moments that Split Enz put on record and it's their most daring and most post-punk record. It's the fusion of pop traditionalist songs to New Wave energy that makes this work for me. As a collection of songs, it's probably not as strong as a few of their others -- both Frenzy, which is a sort of companion record and Time and Tide spring to mind; and the gleaming day-glo sound of Dizrhythmia has been left behind for this record, recorded nearly live in a tiny studio.

    I think the album is a little long and some of the Neil Finn songs stick out a little bit -- which is not to say they are bad, but they sound like an entirely different band, which is fascinating. But at the same time, I'm at a loss as to which songs I would cut: the Neil Finn songs are different, but too good to cut; weaker songs like "Miss Haps" are serve a clear purpose in the flow of the album -- which, by the way, I think is very well-sequenced.

    Overall I come away thinking that Frenzy should have been a double album. The RTLTs are, the darkly frenetic, nervous id to Frenzy's bright energetic ego.

    I'll give this album, made at a time when the band was penniless and getting desperate, a 4.3/5. Never again would they sound so voraciously hungry.

    Tomorrow we'll start to discuss a few bonus tracks before moving on to Frenzy later on in the week.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  15. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Personally, I think the album's "bootleg" status has caused it to be considered more favourably than it would have been had it been issued as a standard album. It certainly would have been good enough to be released at the time but I think it is perhaps viewed more favourably than it might have been. Certainly, it has an edge missing from other albums, and I've often speculated on playing it to friends who feel the Finns to be "too soft".

    I'd give it a 3/5.
     
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  16. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    What do you think about taking the best ten songs or so from the album, -- say, the ones that were eventually released as B-sides or on the Canadian Frenzy or whatever -- and making a double album with Frenzy, though? I think it would have been hands down their best album.

    IN fact, I think there are songs here that are stronger than many of the songs on Frenzy or most of their records; others are less strong, certainly, I'll concede.

    But I definitely don't agree that the "bootleg" status has really affected my enjoyment of the music, personally.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  17. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Well, that's an interesting game, isn't it? Make an album from the raw material. Personally, my picks from RTLT would be
    Miss Haps
    Home Comforts
    Late in Rome
    Straight Talk

    I'd be happy to add
    Carried Away
    Holy Smoke
    Hollow Victory
    Evelyn
    Remember When

    to this mix and, I think, I'd end up with a decent enough album, but nothing earth shattering. It would certainly be as good as Corroboree in my eyes (or ears).

    Frenzy, however, is one of my favourite Enz albums, albeit spoiled greatly by the original mix. This was rectified in the remix but that was then spoilt by horrific mastering. I could swap the first four songs on my list above for my least favourite four songs on Frenzy and, wow, what an album that would be. But I'll offer no spoilers now.

    To those who haven't heard the second (fan club only) disc of RTLT, I'd say it's a shame it wasn't made more widely available. It's mainly alternative versions of songs that were on Frenzy and some radio appearances but it's well worth having and just as enjoyable as the "main" album.
     
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  18. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Agree with you on Frenzy: it's also one of my favorites, top two in fact.

    I wouldn't be comfortable cutting more than two of the songs from there, and really none of them.

    And also agree with you that not having the second disc is a real pity. Hopefully at least the Rayner mix of Frenzy will come out someday with better mastering.
     
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  19. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    I doubt it, Lance. For a start, I don't think there's sufficient commercial appeal. Secondly, I think the loudness is partly "baked" into the mix, and thirdly, I think Eddie likes it loud.
     
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  20. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    I think there was a lot of potential to these recordings, but this is not a collection of songs that I would listen to all that often. 3/5
     
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  21. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I don't think that The Rootin' Tootin' Luton Tapes (agree about the bad title) is cohesive enough to represent an "essential" piece of the Split Enz catalog, but it is enormously helpful in serving as an aid to understanding how the band progressed from the sound of their first three albums to that of Frenzy and True Colours. As we've seen, it's stylistically all over the place, as if they were casting about for different sounds to see which one they could hook onto. There's nothing really terrible on the compilation, even considering the two-disc version, and there is clearly some first-rate material included. I would have been a bit happier if they had included the original mixes rather than remixes of most of the songs that had seen previous release, as well as if they had used better mastering choices.
     
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  22. Jaffaman

    Jaffaman Senior Member

    The title had always been around, first seen in 198o when the “I Hope I Never” single was released in Australia with two Luton B-Sides. “Rootin Tootin Luton Tape England 1978” it said on the label, and did so again with the next single B-side.

    If the album had been released with a different title, I’d have been disappointed.
     
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  23. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Votes for Rootin' Tootin' Luton Tapes:

    1.-0
    2-0
    3-2
    4-1
     
  24. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today's song is "Next Exit", written and sung by Tim Finn.

    Recorded for the Luton Tapes and released in 1981 or 1982 on the Hits & Myths compilation of various New Zealand artists.

    It was later released as a re-recorded stand-alone single in 1983.

    The single version is below.
     
  25. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

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